Bush to veto Stem Cell bill.....Again

Stem cell research should be done at worst, at the State level, at best in the private sector.

The pharm companies have more money than god, I see no reason to extend to them another tier of corporate welfare.
 
Beefy said:
Stem cell research should be done at worst, at the State level, at best in the private sector.

The pharm companies have more money than god, I see no reason to extend to them another tier of corporate welfare.
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No one's talking about giving grants to Pharma companies. That's not how scientific research in this country generally works.

The basic research is generally done at public universities and labs. In fact, stem cells and their medical application was first discovered at University of Wisconsin.

The national science foundation - the Federal governement's scientific grants entity - funds basic research in universities and public labs. That's the way its always worked.
 
Cypress said:
No one's talking about giving grants to Pharma companies. That's not how scientific research in this country generally works.

The basic research is generally done at public universities and labs. In fact, stem cells and their medical application was first discovered at University of Wisconsin.

The national science foundation - the Federal governement's scientific grants entity - funds basic research in universities and public labs. That's the way its always worked.
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I'm not talking about grants to pharm companies. I'm talking about Uncle Sam footing the bill and doing the research and development for them at the Universities and all that. They're absorbing a huge part of the costs, but if it bears fruit, the pharm co's will throw more gold on their heap, and the poor dumb slob who was taxed to grow the research will then be gouged by the pharm companies on the back end when he needs the technology.

States can do that for themselves. We don't need the federal government deciding everything all the time. We're big boys in our own states. We can figure it out. In addition to that, I don't exactly trust the federal government with anything, expecially medecine.
 
Just a desperation Grab by Bush and the Republican party to try and hold on to the religious right's vote. Nothing more , nothing less.
working on the one or two issue voters.
 
Beefy said:
I'm not talking about grants to pharm companies. I'm talking about Uncle Sam footing the bill and doing the research and development for them at the Universities and all that. They're absorbing a huge part of the costs, but if it bears fruit, the pharm co's will throw more gold on their heap, and the poor dumb slob who was taxed to grow the research will then be gouged by the pharm companies on the back end when he needs the technology.

States can do that for themselves. We don't need the federal government deciding everything all the time. We're big boys in our own states. We can figure it out. In addition to that, I don't exactly trust the federal government with anything, expecially medecine.
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QFT
 
Bush is very afraid of show ing any "weakness" whatsoever.
Snows statement about the meeting on war funding was very telling in this regard, something about just a discussion not a negotiation meeting....
 
uscitizen said:
Bush is very afraid of show ing any "weakness" whatsoever.
Snows statement about the meeting on war funding was very telling in this regard, something about just a discussion not a negotiation meeting....
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If that were true my little intellectual exercise on the Logan Act would have a much more prominent role in the news today.
 
Damocles said:
If that were true my little intellectual exercise on the Logan Act would have a much more prominent role in the news today.
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It was all over Fox news last night , saw it while I was at the local hangout aka country store yesterday evening.

so considering it was all over Fox and not the other media, I think that proves my point.
 
Beefy said:
I'm not talking about grants to pharm companies. I'm talking about Uncle Sam footing the bill and doing the research and development for them at the Universities and all that. They're absorbing a huge part of the costs, but if it bears fruit, the pharm co's will throw more gold on their heap, and the poor dumb slob who was taxed to grow the research will then be gouged by the pharm companies on the back end when he needs the technology.

States can do that for themselves. We don't need the federal government deciding everything all the time. We're big boys in our own states. We can figure it out. In addition to that, I don't exactly trust the federal government with anything, expecially medecine.
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I'm not talking about grants to pharm companies. I'm talking about Uncle Sam footing the bill and doing the research and development for them at the Universities and all that.

That's the way it's been done for the last 70 years in this country. And it's a system that made us the world's premier scientific and technological power. I'm suprised that after 70 years of astonishing success and accomplishment, you're so willing to throw away that system on a whim, or on an ideological theory.

States are generally cash-strapped. They don't have the resources to invest billions into high-end, basic scientific and medical research. Of course, to some extent, states and private industry, can and do fund university research. But science and techology is a national issue as well - a national, public policy issue. The federal gov. has the resources to help american science and research. I've never heard anyone on capitol hill - even the most conservative senator or congressman - suggest that we should shut down the National Science Foundation, and all the other federal entities that support basic scientific research.
 
Yep Nevada did such a good job of screening the poison wheat Gluten from china didn't they. Yep let the states do it. This could just as easially have happend in the human food industry. Becuase no one is watching.

for you who are not aware, the contaminated wheat gluten was imported from China by a corp in NV and resold to the pet food industry.
That company is responisble for the problem imho not the pet food company that purchased the product from an American company.
 
uscitizen said:
It was all over Fox news last night , saw it while I was at the local hangout aka country store yesterday evening.

so considering it was all over Fox and not the other media, I think that proves my point.
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No, it doesn't. My point would be that Pelosi would be facing a felony charge. If Bush really "didn't want to show weakness" he most certainly couldn't let her undermine his foreign policy.
 
give me a break...

1) Bush is not banning federally funded stem cell research... he is banning federally funded EMBRYONIC stem cell research.

2) The funding if so promising, can be done by the private sector or at the state level should they choose.

3) As Ihate pointed out, they are close to being able to draw the embryonic stem cells without destroying the embryo.

4) Cypress... just because something has been done for a long time (successful or not) doesn't mean it is the BEST way to do it. I agree with Beefy, it is another form of corporate subsidy in which the government rarely recoups any benefits for funding the basic research.
 
Like AZT ?
Developed by NIH, patented by whom ?
This is a time honored tactic of the drug industry.

Shut down NIH, it is just a tool of industry. ;)

Who are the socialists anyway ?
 
sfreak,

All you and Beefy have is a theory about funding scientfic research: Eliminate the federal role, and let states handle it. We have to take your word for it, that this will be a better system. No thanks.

I have empirical evidence that the current system (state, private, and FEDERAL) support for scientific research works. And works very well. This system made us the unquestioned scientific and technological world leader for the past 60 years.

Suggesting eliminating the National Science Foundation, the CDC, and all the national labs - like Livermore, Sandia, et all - is a radical solution, based on theory and ideology. I've not heard even the most conservative congressman suggest this. We're expected to take your word for it that it will be better - even though the current system already made us the world LEADER in science for half a century.
 
Superfreak said:
give me a break...

1) Bush is not banning federally funded stem cell research... he is banning federally funded EMBRYONIC stem cell research.

2) The funding if so promising, can be done by the private sector or at the state level should they choose.

3) As Ihate pointed out, they are close to being able to draw the embryonic stem cells without destroying the embryo.

4) Cypress... just because something has been done for a long time (successful or not) doesn't mean it is the BEST way to do it. I agree with Beefy, it is another form of corporate subsidy in which the government rarely recoups any benefits for funding the basic research.
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In such an enormous subsidy, the big pharma companies would make billions on research paid for publicly while the price of medical care would still rise. What a fantastic deal for the pharma companies. It's just the little guy that gets the shaft.
 
Cypress, it is NOT a "theory". As you pointed out, the states already fund research. As does the private sector. There is nothing to suggest that the R&D needs to be done by the government. Bottom line is this: the research has to be done otherwise the pipeline for the corporate world drys up. Do you really think the corporations are going to let that happen? No, they won't... because it would cripple them. Of course they would prefer the government continue the funding, because that is an expense they then do not have to incur... but it doesn't mean they wouldn't fund even more of the basic research if they government were to stop

If the government DOES continue the funding, then the idiots in DC need to make sure the government tax dollars are recouped from the products/services that are developed from the research they funded.
 
Superfreak said:
Cypress, it is NOT a "theory". As you pointed out, the states already fund research. As does the private sector. There is nothing to suggest that the R&D needs to be done by the government. Bottom line is this: the research has to be done otherwise the pipeline for the corporate world drys up. Do you really think the corporations are going to let that happen? No, they won't... because it would cripple them. Of course they would prefer the government continue the funding, because that is an expense they then do not have to incur... but it doesn't mean they wouldn't fund even more of the basic research if they government were to stop

If the government DOES continue the funding, then the idiots in DC need to make sure the government tax dollars are recouped from the products/services that are developed from the research they funded.
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The states dont fund research anywhere as efficently or as well as the Federal govt could. If you are not against federally funded AIDS or cancer RESEARCH why would you be against stem cell research?
 
Superfreak said:
Cypress, it is NOT a "theory". As you pointed out, the states already fund research. As does the private sector. There is nothing to suggest that the R&D needs to be done by the government. Bottom line is this: the research has to be done otherwise the pipeline for the corporate world drys up. Do you really think the corporations are going to let that happen? No, they won't... because it would cripple them. Of course they would prefer the government continue the funding, because that is an expense they then do not have to incur... but it doesn't mean they wouldn't fund even more of the basic research if they government were to stop

If the government DOES continue the funding, then the idiots in DC need to make sure the government tax dollars are recouped from the products/services that are developed from the research they funded.
Click to expand...

the government is not allowed to indulge in profit making commerce.
 
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