Councilman Refuses to Stand for Pledge

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Councilman Refuses to Stand for Pledge

By AMANDA LEE MYERS
Associated Press Writer


MESA, Ariz. (AP) -- One person suggested that City Councilman Tom Rawles be taken out back and beaten. Another said someone should put a bullet in his head, and a third that he should be buried in the cement his construction company uses.

Rawles began getting the threats last month after he started refusing to recite or stand for the Pledge of Allegiance during council meetings to protest the war in Iraq. He has sat out for the pledge twice so far.

His stand has angered fellow council members and constituents alike in this conservative Phoenix suburb of about 400,000, with several people demanding the first-term councilman be thrown out of office. Police briefly provided him with protection before deciding the threats were no reason for alarm.

"You have disrespected our country and the symbol of it and the men and women who fought for it," resident Mike Thelan told Rawles through tears at a council meeting on Monday. "You have acted like a spoiled little child that has not received what he wants from his parents."

Rawles, a 57-year-old lawyer who long ago decided not to run for re-election when his term is up in June 2008, said he will continue his protest "until the troops come home." He said he doesn't mind that his stand is angering some people.

"That's what political speech is supposed to do. It's supposed to infuriate and irritate and challenge and make people think," Rawles said. "They apparently would prefer me just to walk lockstep and mouth ritualistic words to a mandatory ceremony, and that's not my idea of freedom."

In similar protests over the years, two black American sprinters at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics bowed their heads and raised their gloved fists in a black-power salute during the national anthem. In 1996, NBA player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf refused to stand for the anthem because of what he said was the United States' history of tyranny. And in 2004, baseball star Carlos Delgado would not come out of the dugout during "God Bless America" to protest the war in Iraq.

Fellow Councilman Kyle Jones said it is not Rawles' opinion about the war that offends him - it is the refusal to stand during the pledge.

"The privilege of reciting the pledge is just that, it's a privilege," Jones said. "I'm very grateful for that privilege, and so for somebody who historically has promoted patriotism so much, I was just taken back by that action."

Resident Gary Darst said Rawles is "nuts."

"He's got a right not to believe in the war," he said. "It's just not standing up and not saluting the flag - that's ridiculous."

But Mesa resident Joann Stewart said she is not offended by Rawles' protest.

"I personally would never have picked that way to protest because that's the flag of the United States of America, and I honor that," she said. "But the main concern is what's going on with the war."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PLEDGE_PROTEST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
 
I think he should probably stand, because GWB and the neohawks are not the usa and they do not represent what the USA stands for.

But anyway I digress, this is what gets me. "One person suggested that City Councilman Tom Rawles be taken out back and beaten. Another said someone should put a bullet in his head, and a third that he should be buried in the cement his construction company uses."

sure sounds like nice reasonable people running that city :rolleyes:
 
Councilman Refuses to Stand for Pledge

By AMANDA LEE MYERS
Associated Press Writer


MESA, Ariz. (AP) -- One person suggested that City Councilman Tom Rawles be taken out back and beaten. Another said someone should put a bullet in his head, and a third that he should be buried in the cement his construction company uses.

Rawles began getting the threats last month after he started refusing to recite or stand for the Pledge of Allegiance during council meetings to protest the war in Iraq. He has sat out for the pledge twice so far.

His stand has angered fellow council members and constituents alike in this conservative Phoenix suburb of about 400,000, with several people demanding the first-term councilman be thrown out of office. Police briefly provided him with protection before deciding the threats were no reason for alarm.

"You have disrespected our country and the symbol of it and the men and women who fought for it," resident Mike Thelan told Rawles through tears at a council meeting on Monday. "You have acted like a spoiled little child that has not received what he wants from his parents."

Rawles, a 57-year-old lawyer who long ago decided not to run for re-election when his term is up in June 2008, said he will continue his protest "until the troops come home." He said he doesn't mind that his stand is angering some people.

"That's what political speech is supposed to do. It's supposed to infuriate and irritate and challenge and make people think," Rawles said. "They apparently would prefer me just to walk lockstep and mouth ritualistic words to a mandatory ceremony, and that's not my idea of freedom."

In similar protests over the years, two black American sprinters at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics bowed their heads and raised their gloved fists in a black-power salute during the national anthem. In 1996, NBA player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf refused to stand for the anthem because of what he said was the United States' history of tyranny. And in 2004, baseball star Carlos Delgado would not come out of the dugout during "God Bless America" to protest the war in Iraq.

Fellow Councilman Kyle Jones said it is not Rawles' opinion about the war that offends him - it is the refusal to stand during the pledge.

"The privilege of reciting the pledge is just that, it's a privilege," Jones said. "I'm very grateful for that privilege, and so for somebody who historically has promoted patriotism so much, I was just taken back by that action."

Resident Gary Darst said Rawles is "nuts."

"He's got a right not to believe in the war," he said. "It's just not standing up and not saluting the flag - that's ridiculous."

But Mesa resident Joann Stewart said she is not offended by Rawles' protest.

"I personally would never have picked that way to protest because that's the flag of the United States of America, and I honor that," she said. "But the main concern is what's going on with the war."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PLEDGE_PROTEST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Aren't some of the responses amazing? He should have a bullet put in his head? He should be buried in concrete? Wow. Why do conservatives jump so quickly towards the most vicious violence? They're very violent people.

Here will come Damo to claim that for every one violent con I know, he's "heard about" two violent libs. I doubt it! Sometimes, I get the feeling that I would like to hit him upside the head with a frying pan. But I would never advocate burying him in concrete.
 
I think he should probably stand, because GWB and the neohawks are not the usa and they do not represent what the USA stands for.

But anyway I digress, this is what gets me. "One person suggested that City Councilman Tom Rawles be taken out back and beaten. Another said someone should put a bullet in his head, and a third that he should be buried in the cement his construction company uses."

sure sounds like nice reasonable people running that city :rolleyes:

They really represent that good old time morality that Dixie pines for.
 
WOW, just for not standing for the pledge...gads, I wonder what they would do if he burned a picture of Ronnie Raygun?
 
WOW, just for not standing for the pledge...gads, I wonder what they would do if he burned a picture of Ronnie Raygun?
Well, since I believed at the time that Ronnie Raygun should have been taken out back and beaten or had a bullet planted in his brain -- not that anyone would have noticed -- I guess I can't complain.

;)
 
They had this guy on Hannity and Colmes a few weeks ago.

It was Classic. Sean Hannity didn't do his homework. He started yelling at the guy, saying his typical bullshit: calling him a liberal, democrat, leftwinger, etc.

The guy calmly responded: "Sean, I've been a republican my whole life - for the past 45 years, since I first registerd to vote".


You could almost see the steam coming out of Hannity's ears.
 
M'EH... I wish I had an opponent that would be so easy to beat when I run for Commissioner...
 
You would want to serve with the rest of that bunch Damo ?
I wouldn't be refusing to stand for the Pledge. I think that is a silly attention-grabber more for people like unto those who burn flags. There are far better ways to protest Iraq than acting like you no longer belong to nor wish to serve this nation.
 
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