Creationists Should Not Be Allowed To Use Fossil Fuels: Open discussion

[Into the Night]

Building a thread for everyone to comment on this subject, rather than restricting it to the kiddie pool, starting with the opening post made by Politalker:

PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

It only stands to reason.

Whether he chooses to participate in this thread is his own business. He is not blocked from participating in this thread. I invite open discussion by all.

 

[Into the Night]

Personally, I see Politalkers's position on this issue to simply be bigotry. Here he makes no argument other than that those who subscribe to the Theory of Creation should be banned from purchasing carbon based fuels, commonly called 'fossil' fuels (even though they do not come from fossils). Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel.

 

[Into the Night]

Is there any mention of dinosaurs in the Bible?

No. Neither does there need to be. The Bible is not a complete record of the history of Earth.

Coal, oil, and natural gas do not come from dinosaurs. The presence of dinosaurs at any time on Earth does not preclude God or the Bible either.

These three carbon based fuels are created continuously by natural conditions underground. We already make use of some of these conditions artificially to make our own natural gas and crude oil synthetically.

The Theory of Evolution is quite old. The earliest reference to it we have was made by Aristotle. Darwin quoted this theory as his own when he was creating the Theory of Natural Selection. A copy of his text where he publishes this information can be found here.

The Theory of Creation, that life arrived on Earth through the action of some intelligent act, does not require that intelligence to be a god or gods at all. Christianity uses a single God for this intelligence.

The Theory of Abiogenesis, that life originated on Earth by means of unspecified random events, directly conflicts with the Theory of Creation. One of them MUST be false. The Theory of Evolution is not in conflict with either. Dinosaurs can exist with either.

None of these three theories are theories of science. Theories of science must be falsifiable.

Thus, bringing up dinosaurs and bibles in a discussion about carbon based fuels is a non-sequitur. They simply have nothing to do with each other at all.

 

[Into the Night]

Creationism is just some Christians. Here's a weird quandary. If the Earth was created in seven days, what days are they going by? Before Earth was created, there would have been no Earth day to scale buy.

While Christians believe in the Theory of Creation, that theory is not exclusive to Christians or Christianity. Many religions and faiths believe in the Theory of Creation. The Theory of Creation does not even require a god or gods at all. The intelligence that brought life to Earth need not be a god or gods.

For all we know, we might be the result of a horrible lab accident somewhere, and they dumped it on Earth to get rid of it.

As for the 'seven days', you are quite right. 'Day' in the English bible was translated from Hebrew, which used a word meaning any span of time, though usually it means the 24 hour day today.

How long was a 'day' before the Sun and Moon existed?

Is the 'day' referring to the physical creation of the Earth and everything on it, or is it referring only to the planning of it? If so, how long was THAT day? Earth didn't exist yet!

 

[Into the Night]

No, it was written long after they were gone, and before they're existence would have been noted.

An interesting point. Did dinosaurs come and go before there was even an Eden? Could they have existed IN Eden?

We have no record of how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Into the Night]

And before science figured out how to interpret fossils.

What's to interpret? Fossils simply exist. All they really show is evidence (but not proof) that some animal or plant died there. There is also an industry that manufactures fake fossils for profit. Some of these are so good they wind up in museums as 'real' fossils.

Fossils do not denote lineage. That is simply assigned by us. There are several different lineages claimed, depending on the criteria used to make the assignments.

 

[Into the Night]

Based on my observations from watching the "Beverly Hillbillies", I do not think most barely educated conservatives from the bible-thumping south are aware that "Texas Tea" actually comes from the decomposition of prehistoric plants.
"Fossil fuels" is also a word sophisticated people use, and I do not actually recall Jed, Ellie May, Jethro, or Daisy ever using that term.

They don't. Coal, oil, and natural gas are found well below any fossil layers or any layers where plant life existed.

We also know that the conditions for the formation of oil and natural gas exist naturally underground, and that these materials are produced continuously by the Earth itself.

Coal we don't know. Coal is pure carbon. Any impurities in the coal (such as fossils) do not burn. We do not know where coal comes from.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, coal comes from plants. Oil is typically thought to originate from animals (microorganisms). There is some debate on oil, however.

Oil comes from the presence of carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, hydrogen, heat, and pressure in the presence of iron, which acts as a catalyst. These conditions exist naturally underground. See the Fischer-Tropsche process for details of this chemistry. Oil is also found well below any fossil layer.

We don't know where coal comes from.

 

[Into the Night]

I simplified for informal purposes, because using the terminology phytoplankton just wouldn't cut the mustard for the purposes of the post.

Apparently it does, since you used it.

This is what I learned and was told.

Yes, this teaching is common...and wrong.

Totally simplified, because the organic chemistry can be complex and there might be some evidence of abiogenic or inorganic origins of oil, although that is a fringe hteory.

Nothing particularly complex about oil or it's structure.

Oil comes from plankton -- marine zooplankton (microscopic animals) and marine phytoplankton (aka, marine plants)

Then why is oil found 2 miles deep, well below any fossil or marine layer?

Natural gas comes from terrestrial plant material.

As opposed to alien plant material? Did you know we synthesize both oil and natural gas from carbon dioxide, hydrogen, heat, and pressure? Yup. Conditions found naturally underground.

Coal comes from terrestrial plants located in swamps.

As opposed to alien plants in swamps? Seriously, have you even to Florida? There are some pretty alien looking plants there! (not a lot of coal though!)

 

[Into the Night]

Yeah, on AGW, I tend to rely on NASA, NOAA, or academic papers.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change'. You can't have theories about something you can't define.

Not even NOAA, NASA, nor any academic paper can do that!

Not some blog of some former accountant that fancies himself as a climate expert.

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming'. Climate 'scientists' aren't. They deny science and mathematics.

Not just science either.

You are not talking about science, just your religion.

Lately, I’ve read more about JCPOA, federal election laws, the Mueller report, the War Powers Act, AUMF, sanctuary cities, etc. than I otherwise would have.

That's nice. Bet you only read the fake news sources on them too, didn't ya?

 

[Into the Night]

Time is not an arrow. Time actually slows down as it nears the speed of light. It is part of the time-space continuum. https://science.howstuffworks.com/warp-speed2.htm

Time does not have a speed.

The perception of time slowing down is an observation made by one standing still observing the moving clock. If you are moving WITH the clock, the clock appears normal.

The How Stuff Works about warpspeed is about a SCIENCE FICTION SHOW!

 

[domer76]

Is there a gnat in the room?