Curbing Speculation Won't Cut Oil Prices Long-Term: Experts

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Curbing Speculation Won't Cut Oil Prices Long-Term: Experts
Published: Wednesday, 29 Jul 2009 * 1:28 PM ET Text Size By: Jeff Cox
CNBC.com

Curbs on speculation in oil probably would decrease volatility but push prices lower only in the short term, energy trading experts say.



The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is weighing restrictions on non-commercial futures trading on the oil markets, deliberation that in itself has set off speculation about what would happen to oil prices that have swung in a $110 range just within the past year.

While the political objective seems to be preventing the types of unfettered runs US light, sweet crude [US@CL.1 64.1 0.75 (+1.18%) ] experienced the past two summers, energy analysts said the actual results might disappoint.




Jeff Cox
Staff Writer
CNBC.com
"I'm not one that's going to tell you the direction is only going to be down," says James DiGeorgia, editor of the Gold and Energy Advisor online newsletter. "That may be a short-term result. In the long-term, all it's going to do is reduce volatility on the extremes."

Speculators, after all, can place bets in both directions, something the market has shown in vivid detail since the summer of 2008 dramatic run-up that ended with $147 a barrel in mid-July.

As demand dried up and the economy cratered in September, oil prices went into freefall, tumbling into the mid-$30 range by December. Another rally followed that sent oil prices above $70 at various times, though the trade is off this week and prices are trending lower on news that crude supplies increased at a higher-than-expected pace.


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Opponents of the trading limits say the market is merely following normal moves that ultimately end up in proper price-setting.

"I have a hard time following the logic," says Ben Halliburton, managing director of Tradition Capital Management in Summit, N.J. "You had some evil speculators manipulate the price up in crude. How did they manage to exit their positions at profits? What happened to those evil speculators as the price of crude adjusted from $147 to the mid-30s?"

Darin Newsom, an energy analyst at DTN in Omaha, Neb., said the past $25 or so of last summer's oil run was probably due to speculation, but the price otherwise rose due to fundamentals.

"You had such momentum coming from the non-commercial/investment side that it carried well beyond where the fundamentals actually determined," he says. "A lot of this that is going on now is just a lot of hubbub. It doesn't really change the facts of what happened."

Moreover, Newsom thinks oil prices once again have outpaced fundamentals, and another violent correction is due for the market.

Indeed, demand figures continue to indicate use deteriorating, with the latest figures from the Energy Information Administration showing US crude supplies at their highest levels in more than six months.



Consequently, Newsom thinks oil is headed much lower—to a range of $17 to $25 a barrel as the annual trough hits in December. That will come, he says, regardless of what steps the CFTC says to drive speculators out of the market.

"The underlying fundamentals have been as bearish as they've been in quite some time. We have burdensome supplies to meet demand," he says. "The price needs to come lower to find some new buying."

Not everyone believes oil is heading lower.

DiGeorgia believes prices are going higher, due in part to expected economic growth coming next year. Other oil bulls see a trend in which investors fearful of huge government liquidity injections into the economy will turn to oil as a natural inflation hedge.


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Such potential for upward price moves would only bolster the case of those targeting speculators.

"If the economy starts to turn around here in another year or so we're going to be right back in the same squeeze. We really haven't addressed that," DiGeorgia says.

In that case, less volatile oil trading would assuage some of the anxiety from those who've gotten headaches from dealing with the massive price swings of the past year.

"The best thing that could happen is we lose the big price swings, we have a more calm market. I wouldn't have a problem with that," says Sean Brodrick, natural resource analyst with Weiss Research's "Uncommon Wisdom Daily" newsletter. "Frankly, I've been getting ulcers from the way the markets have been moving. I wouldn't mind if it calms down a little bit."
 
It obviously will cut prices, or else you wouldn't care.

I agree with the article. In essence the market becomes less efficient. It will go up slower, but it will also go down slower.
None of the morons crying about the increase cried about the same decrease.
 
I agree with the article. In essence the market becomes less efficient. It will go up slower, but it will also go down slower.
None of the morons crying about the increase cried about the same decrease.

Life is a not a casino. More "investor class" people need to actually work instead of turning everything into a game of chance.
 
I agree with the article. In essence the market becomes less efficient. It will go up slower, but it will also go down slower.
None of the morons crying about the increase cried about the same decrease.

Nor did any of the stock-holders crying about the decreases cry about the same increases. I remember you crying on here about how we weren't paying enough for oil.
 
I would have to agree....speculation is a short term inflator....in the long term you deal with the issues of supply and demand, and we can only logically assume that demand is going to grow and China and India continue with their development....thus, long term prospects are for higher prices.....

however, speculation does have short term impact, making the higher priced oil of the future even more expensive when it is in fact delivered....
 
I agree with the article. In essence the market becomes less efficient. It will go up slower, but it will also go down slower.
None of the morons crying about the increase cried about the same decrease.

The people involved in oil speculation by a huge margin will never take delivery. They are not oil people attempting to stabilize a market. Oil to them is merely a paper instrument they gamble on to earn profit. Supply and demand is secondary. It is in their interest to drive the market price upward regardless of its effect on the nation, the people, or the world.
 
The people involved in oil speculation by a huge margin will never take delivery. They are not oil people attempting to stabilize a market. Oil to them is merely a paper instrument they gamble on to earn profit. Supply and demand is secondary. It is in their interest to drive the market price upward regardless of its effect on the nation, the people, or the world.

they are driven by their own greed to make more money, not to help the world or the industry.
 
I would have to agree....speculation is a short term inflator....in the long term you deal with the issues of supply and demand, and we can only logically assume that demand is going to grow and China and India continue with their development....thus, long term prospects are for higher prices.....

however, speculation does have short term impact, making the higher priced oil of the future even more expensive when it is in fact delivered....

Speculation can also hold oil prices at artificially low levels... like what we saw throughout the 1990's. Like we saw again at the start of this year.

Amazing how so many seem to forget that speculation can drive prices both up AND down.
 
The people involved in oil speculation by a huge margin will never take delivery. They are not oil people attempting to stabilize a market. Oil to them is merely a paper instrument they gamble on to earn profit. Supply and demand is secondary. It is in their interest to drive the market price upward regardless of its effect on the nation, the people, or the world.

False. Speculators drive the price up when they feel it is too low and drive it down when they feel it is too high. They can hold prices at artificially high levels for a time, but they can hold them at artificially low levels even longer.

Or do you believe that oil was really only worth $10/brl in 1999?

as for not taking delivery, you can say the same for gold, currencies, other basic materials, etc...

You can also say the same for stocks... people speculate on the price and where they think it will go in the future. Sometimes they drive a stock well above its true value, sometimes well below. It is a part of the market.
 
False. Speculators drive the price up when they feel it is too low and drive it down when they feel it is too high. They can hold prices at artificially high levels for a time, but they can hold them at artificially low levels even longer.

Or do you believe that oil was really only worth $10/brl in 1999?

as for not taking delivery, you can say the same for gold, currencies, other basic materials, etc...

You can also say the same for stocks... people speculate on the price and where they think it will go in the future. Sometimes they drive a stock well above its true value, sometimes well below. It is a part of the market.



Not false. Oil speculators go short or long on contracts hoping to drive the market as far as possible in the direction they have thrown their bet. It remains that they have no interest in stabilizing the market and will never take delivery. If they are able to create momentum in either direction, with or without logical supply and demand influences, they will, because that is where their profit lies. Supply and demand has little to do with it as evidenced by your own $10 example, although I beleive that was in a recession year allowing you to see what is happening now for comparison.
Margins on oil contracts are far lower than on stocks giving speculators greater leverage in influencing the market. Stocks are in a much broader market than a market of single commodity instruments, thus not as easy to manipulate, particularly with higher margin requirements. The Bass Bros. disproved the exclusivity of supply and demand influences several years back with their attack on silver. You are correct about gold etc, but oil is a commodity which very few or none of us can do without. If the Euro goes up, the prices will be the same at my supermarket tomorrow, you know what happens at the pump tomorrow when oil goes up.
Above all, there is little, if any, deterrent on oil speculation through regulation, and greed is paramount isn't it?
 
Not false. Oil speculators go short or long on contracts hoping to drive the market as far as possible in the direction they have thrown their bet. It remains that they have no interest in stabilizing the market and will never take delivery. If they are able to create momentum in either direction, with or without logical supply and demand influences, they will, because that is where their profit lies. Supply and demand has little to do with it as evidenced by your own $10 example, although I beleive that was in a recession year allowing you to see what is happening now for comparison.
Margins on oil contracts are far lower than on stocks giving speculators greater leverage in influencing the market. Stocks are in a much broader market than a market of single commodity instruments, thus not as easy to manipulate, particularly with higher margin requirements. The Bass Bros. disproved the exclusivity of supply and demand influences several years back with their attack on silver. You are correct about gold etc, but oil is a commodity which very few or none of us can do without. If the Euro goes up, the prices will be the same at my supermarket tomorrow, you know what happens at the pump tomorrow when oil goes up.
Above all, there is little, if any, deterrent on oil speculation through regulation, and greed is paramount isn't it?

Again, your statement is 100% incorrect. For you to be correct, all speculators would have to be moving in the same direction. That type of a coordinated effort among all speculators worldwide simply will never take place. EVER.

The $10/brl was NOT during a recession. It was in 1999 during the peak of the bull run. It was held artificially low by the US for the entire decade of the 1990s. We used our economic power to ensure that it stayed low.

Oil is not any more/less susceptible to manipulation than an individual stock. Just look at what happened to WaMu or Indybank if you think otherwise. If it does skew slightly to oil or stocks, the direction would be to stocks now that the uptick rule has been removed by the idiots in DC.
 
Again, your statement is 100% incorrect. For you to be correct, all speculators would have to be moving in the same direction. That type of a coordinated effort among all speculators worldwide simply will never take place. EVER.

The $10/brl was NOT during a recession. It was in 1999 during the peak of the bull run. It was held artificially low by the US for the entire decade of the 1990s. We used our economic power to ensure that it stayed low.

Oil is not any more/less susceptible to manipulation than an individual stock. Just look at what happened to WaMu or Indybank if you think otherwise. If it does skew slightly to oil or stocks, the direction would be to stocks now that the uptick rule has been removed by the idiots in DC.

I'm so sorry I'm 100% incorrect, I bow to your superior intellect and expertise.
You do seem to be using every argument to negate the supply and demand argument.
I did not say an individual stock could not be manipulated, I said the stock MARKET would be more difficult to manipulate than the 1 commodity oil market and I gave reasons. I also gave an instance of another 1 commodity market(silver) being manipulated drastically without appropriate regulating laws. Your example of the 2 banks is exactly the reason we do need regulation. The fact remains that the price of oil affects all of our lives and any attempts at manipulation should be punished severely with strict laws not in place now.
$10 in 1999, another good reason to keep Texas oil men out of the White House.
The Uptick Rule was removed by only 1 idiot, former Congressman Chris Cox (R-CA} as Chairman of the SEC and I presume with the approval of his boss, the man who appointed him, g.w. bush.
I'm very sorry that I seem to be in disagreement with you, it must be a character flaw.

By the way, speculators in collusion do move in one direction.
 
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Collusion in speculation is not required. Just a common goal.

I agree. I was responding to his first sentence using "All" twice and "never" once as his criteria. A few powerful hedge funds or Middle East Oil cartels could have a marked effect on prices, in other words, never say never. Collusion has happened before, probably far more often than anybody knows. To say the $147 bbl price was in no way driven by speculation is total naivite'.
 
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