Does War create a more peaceful society ?

uscitizen

Villified User
In one aspect anyway, I believe it does. It tends to get those with more aggressive tendancies killed off. The 4f's and draft dodgers genetics get passed on instead of the warriors genetics. And they raise the children in their manner as well.
This to me would tend to indicate to me that the next generation would be slightly less aggressive. Yes or no ?
 
well its easier to get laid in times of war.
Well honey Im going off to war and will probably die ,please give me a little?

You may not be there to raise but your genes get passed on.
 
They dont get passed on as much as the one who don't go to war Desh....
The loss of all the most agressive males in a generation really caused problems for the south after the civil war. And now we have Dixie :D
 
I think that when people actually go through a war and see how ugly and inglorious it really is, they aren't eager to go through it again. In that sense, then, war does promote peaceful times.
 
I think that when people actually go through a war and see how ugly and inglorious it really is, they aren't eager to go through it again. In that sense, then, war does promote peaceful times.

As a general rule , yes I agree. However it also brings out the worst in some people.
 
I don't think so, unless I forgot the name and remembered the results ;)

It was an old social psych study, one of those that rises to prominence in Psych.100 classes. I believe that it was conducted in California, not sure which campus. The aim of the work was to examine how perfectly normal people (soldiers and guards in the German military) could have committed the sorts of atrocities against other people that occurred in the death camps during WWII.

The participants were all college students (as most participants in such studies tend to be) who were randomly assigned to either the prisoner group or the guard group. The study was planned to last for two weeks. Here my memory becomes a bit fuzzy; I can't recall specifically what the instructions were that were given to each group, but responsibility for the guards' actions was apparently explicitly assumed by those conducting the study, and some instructions also were given as to the treatment of the prisoner group.

The study was halted by the sixth day because it had become too brutal. The guard group had become sadistic, and were seriously abusing the prisoner group, though in real life these students were their peers. The prisoner group, likewise, assumed the role into which they had been cast, and not only put up with the abuse, but began to show signs of serious stress and depression. Remember that this whole thing was voluntary, that everyone involved knew at the outset that it was make-believe and that members of both groups were their fellow college students.

The conclusions of the researchers at the time were, simply, that the assumption of responsibility, once removed, from the "guard" group tended to release them to be as brutal and vicious as they were, and that this might have explained the original question of the research. I personally think that this is a pretty simplistic explanation, but given that it was an intro course, it may be that more complex interpretations were not forthcoming at the time to such novices as first-year students. Nevertheless, the behaviors observed were real.
 
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It was an old social psych study, one of those that rises to prominence in Psych.100 classes. I believe that it was conducted in California, not sure which campus. The aim of the work was to examine how perfectly normal people (soldiers and guards in the German military) could have committed the sorts of atrocities against other people that occurred in the death camps during WWII.

The participants were all college students (as most participants in such studies tend to be) who were randomly assigned to either the prisoner group or the guard group. The study was planned to last for two weeks. Here my memory becomes a bit fuzzy; I can't recall specifically what the instructions were that were given to each group, but responsibility for the guards' actions was apparently explicitly assumed by those conducting the study, and some instructions also were given as to the treatment of the prisoner group.

The study was halted by the sixth day because it had become too brutal. The guard group had become sadistic, and were seriously abusing the prisoner group, though in real life these students were their peers. The prisoner group, likewise, assumed the role into which they had been cast, and not only put up with the abuse, but began to show signs of serious stress and depression. Remember that this whole thing was voluntary, that everyone involved knew at the outset that it was make-believe and that members of both groups were their fellow college students.

The conclusions of the researchers at the time were, simply, that the assumption of responsibility, once removed, from the "guard" group tended to release them to be as brutal and vicious as they were, and that this might have explained the original question of the research. I personally think that this is a pretty simplistic explanation, but given that it was an intro course, it may be that more complex interpretations were not forthcoming at the time to such novices as first-year students. Nevertheless, the behaviors observed were real.
Zimbardo was at Stanford at the time. In fact, it's commonly called the "Stanford prison experiment." It was still a hot topic when I got there some 4 years later.

http://www.prisonexp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/97/970108prisonexp.html


The guard group were told to maintain order among the prisoner group. They were, if memory serves, told that the prisoners would try to escape. There is a great deal of stuff and nonsense in the popular imagination about this exercise, too. Frankly, it was scary enough without making it any worse by embellishment.

Many of the behaviors that some articles claim the "guards" dreamed up on their own were actually part of the experimental framework. The guard group was instructed to use techniques similar to what real prison guards use. They were told to avoid violence . . . but then, so are real prison guards.
 
Zimbardo was at Stanford at the time. In fact, it's commonly called the "Stanford prison experiment." It was still a hot topic when I got there some 4 years later.

http://www.prisonexp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/97/970108prisonexp.html


The guard group were told to maintain order among the prisoner group. They were, if memory serves, told that the prisoners would try to escape. There is a great deal of stuff and nonsense in the popular imagination about this exercise, too. Frankly, it was scary enough without making it any worse by embellishment.

Many of the behaviors that some articles claim the "guards" dreamed up on their own were actually part of the experimental framework. The guard group was instructed to use techniques similar to what real prison guards use. They were told to avoid violence . . . but then, so are real prison guards.

You were there!!! That must have made quite a furor (no pun intended) at the time. When I read about it some time later, I was up in Ottawa, a Commerce major at the time and intro Psych was one of our required courses. Whatever I recall was taken from our textbook, but as basic and stripped down as it must have been in that format, it made quite a profound impression on me. (I did have to refer to the wikipedia article for the time periods, because I remembered them incorrectly). Now, the wikipedia site and I presume others, are suggesting that the study may have some relevance to the Abu Ghraib events. That wouldn't be surprising; people really don't change much, do they?
 
No people don't really change much. Now if our society advanced as fast as our technology...But alas Tech knowledge can be easially passed on, but each new person has to start from scratch on learning morals and such.
How far will this restriction let us progress as a human society ?
 
No people don't really change much. Now if our society advanced as fast as our technology...But alas Tech knowledge can be easially passed on, but each new person has to start from scratch on learning morals and such.
How far will this restriction let us progress as a human society ?

Not as far as we seem to believe we do and will, I fear. Some of my very favorite sci-fi literature deals with this very issue; despite the unimaginable advances in technology, those stories expose humanity for what we are, and suggest that basically very little will change. The reasons, of course, are just as you have said; each individual starts afresh; there really isn't any such thing as atavistic knowledge.
 
Not as far as we seem to believe we do and will, I fear. Some of my very favorite sci-fi literature deals with this very issue; despite the unimaginable advances in technology, those stories expose humanity for what we are, and suggest that basically very little will change. The reasons, of course, are just as you have said; each individual starts afresh; there really isn't any such thing as atavistic knowledge.
True, but there really is such a thing as cultural evolution. Since we are all products of our culture to a very high degree -- the extent is debatable but not the basic fact -- each generation is a bit different from the one before. Not much, it's true, but some. And those changes are still vastly faster than anything biological evolution can produce.
 
True, but there really is such a thing as cultural evolution. Since we are all products of our culture to a very high degree -- the extent is debatable but not the basic fact -- each generation is a bit different from the one before. Not much, it's true, but some. And those changes are still vastly faster than anything biological evolution can produce.

yes but in which direction are we going ?
 
I need to check on when KY lets you goto college tuition free (Donovan Scholor) so I can actually learn about some of this stuff.
 
yes but in which direction are we going ?
LOL! Good question.

Actually, just like biological evolution, there is no "direction" to cultural evolution. It's all about adaptation and survival, not purpose or intent. I do think, though, that there is a natural tendency toward more and more elaborate social structures. That is, a nation state is unlikely to move "backward" into a chiefdom or monarchy.

People born into a nation-state are going to be different from people born into a hunter-gatherer society. Not so much as individuals as in the aggregate. People in general want the same things as we did thousands of years ago but the distribution of wants and behaviors is different.
 
That is, a nation state is unlikely to move "backward" into a chiefdom or monarchy.
//

Well only for 6 years so far anyway ;)
 
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