Economics lesson for the low information liberals

[The Dude]

This is the person saying I don't understand economics?

1. The reason people don't get an education is, as I pointed out, is primarily the cost - or disability -, not laziness.
2. Deal with it isn't a valid public policy.
3. We're demanding the poor get a living wage, not a professorship at Harvard.

That is total horseshit
College takes 4 years and most American kids can't wait to finish hs, with loans anyone with grades can go. But most dont

 

[The Dude]

I must add, the thread started once said he didn't read details about companies when investing.
Kind of ironic
Same guy shorted the market before it took off this year.
I'm guessing I love America loves working to pay off his shitty gambling bets

 

[Mott the Hoople]

That is total horseshit
College takes 4 years and most American kids can't wait to finish hs, with loans anyone with grades can go. But most dont

Yup, college isn't for everyone and even those who go to college don't exactly study disciplines that are marketable. Which is ok, an undergraduate education is where you learn how to learn and become a well rounded person and that's great for personal developlment. No one can take that away from you.....if you can afford it. It won't quarentee you a job however. Coming from a working class background and striving for an upper middle class life style (which I have achieved) it's why I was motivated to study one of the most demanding majors in college.....so I could go out into the real world and learn marketable skills.

A significant problem I see in our education programs is the lack of respect for education in the skilled trades and crafts. Not everyone is intellectualy suited towards academia. That doesn't mean they are stupid or lazy but that their talents may lie elsewhere. Our current systems is set up for what I call "College or bust". Early on in your high school career it's determined by educators whether an individual has college potential or not. Those who are deemed to have that level of talent are guided towards the academic path and are provided a disproportionate level of resources. Those who are deemed not talented enough for the academic path are steered towards classes that will make them good worker bees who can read, write and follow the rules while working at McDonalds. The problem is, is that in todays economy the days of good worker bees with few marketable skills having a middle class standard of living are probably numbered. What we need to do is steer students who do not have the academic bent but do have other talents into quality programs to learn skilled trades, crafts and artisans. This we do piss poorly and what's exasperating is we have the perfect resource to do this by. Our community college system.

My brother inlaw is a perfect example of that you don't need a liberal arts education to be succesfull. He went to community college and recieved an AA degree in CNC machining. He then spent a four year apprenticeship to be certified as a journeyman tool maker. He then spent another four years working as a journeyman before we qualified as a master tool maker. He now runs his own CNC and Machining shop and makes a very nice uppper middle class income. We need a better approach to teach young people who aren't well suited for academia these kinds of skills.

 

[Barracuda]

Well since you quoted Bill Moyers and Richard Wolf................

Typically fallacious (ad hominem) response from someone who has cited NO statistics to contradict what they said.
See my sig.

 

[The Dude]

We should put way more in trades education, and start in hs. Like Germany

 

[apple0154]

I find that most Republicans do not understand anything more than textbook basic economics. ITs much more complicated and less cut and dry than the "basics of economics".

Oil prices for example do not follow the very simple rule of supply and demand. The prices are set by what the people will or can afford to pay, the fulcuation is not based on increasing or decreasing supply (although the oil companies try to claim that). A tax on gas does not result in a 1 for 1 price increase for example. An oil tanker spilling its load should not result in a price increase of gas because it barely affects the huge supply. When the profits of a company are so HUGE, its clear that the price of the product is not set based on supply and demand but set by how much they can get away with charging for the product, because they would still operate at a smaller profit margin if they were forced to do so.

Exactly. Things are priced according to what the market will bear, not according to the cost/labor involved. I recall one oil executive being asked why premium gas, in Canada, was priced at 5 cents a liter more then regular when it only cost 2 cents more to produce. His reply was, "What does cost have to do with selling price?" 4 liters=one US gallon (approximately)

 

[apple0154]

I think it is neither. Look, jobs that pay minimum are not the jobs intended to raise a family on, shoot even to pay rent on... or as a career. I'm not necessarily against it, I just don't believe that it is even part of a solution at all. None of the people who need jobs will even be able to get off food stamps with a minimum wage job, even with an increase.

These are the jobs your high school kid gets to pay for the insurance so they can drive their car, not the job you get to pay the mortgage.

The problem is two-fold. First, people on government assistance are required to get a job. In some cases people on disability are required to take a job much lower than what they previously did and the difference made up by the insurance which brings us to the second problem.

When jobs pay so little we end up having people doing work that isn't necessary. We establish a lower class, for lack of a better term. An individual working 8 hours a day is not going to have the time to job search or attend school so they end up stuck in that job. Do we need that extra person at McDonalds so we get our burger 5 minutes sooner?

There have been business owners on TV complaining about how they'll have to raise prices to cover the minimum wage. Fine. Raise prices. Is adding $2 to a $15 pub meal going to discourage someone from buying it? Or adding 50 cents to a burger?

 

[Barracuda]

Good points.
I've looked for a rule of thumb to determine how much labor costs contribute to, for example, the cost of a burger to see what the impact really is. No luck so far. Perhaps someone else can share a link. But other components of the cost of selling a burger have to be considered, such as: utilities, ingredients, advertising, equipment, extermination, cleaning chemicals, transportation costs, rubbish removal, taxes, unemployment insurance, etc.

However, it is also important to recall that when the newest employee, for example, gets an increase in minimum wage, other workers with more experience, training and good performance feel that they should be making more. Therefore, it is not only the minimum wage workers' pay increase which is included in the increased labor cost of goods sold.

 

[Independent]

1) All things are not equal. 2) not always, if your customer is willing the increased price... Demand stays the same.

Only if all of your custumers are willing to pay the increased price would demand remain the same. This would also beg the question, why was the Demand artificially lower than it should have been to begin with?