Ethan Allen in England

Mott the Hoople

Sweet Jane
When the American Revolutionary War was over Gen. Ethan Allen visited England to visit friends and family long split asunder due to the war.

While in England he was constantly razzed by his host about being an American. One day, in an attempt to get under his skin, they placed a portrait of Gen. George Washington in the outhouse.

Later that day his host asked him what he though about where they had posted the portrait of Washington. Allen replied that it seemed to him to be most appropriate.

Surprised his British host asked him why was that?

To which Gen. Allen said "Why nothing can scare the shit out of an Englishman like seeing Gen. Washington.".
 
Hmm, that's sounds like an apocryphal story to me. Anyway I thought he was imprisoned and eventually sent back to America as part of a prisoner swap. I wonder why the history books make little mention of the co-captor of Fort Ticonderoga, namely one Benedict Arnold!

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Hmm, that's sounds like an apocryphal story to me. Anyway I thought he was imprisoned and eventually sent back to America as part of a prisoner swap. I wonder why the history books make little mention of the co-captor of Fort Ticonderoga, namely one Benedict Arnold!

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He was captured and exchanged in a prisoner swap.

If Allen gets more credit for taking Ft. Ticonderoga it's because Allen was unquestionably the leader of the battle for Ft. Ticonderoga. On paper and to his credit, Benedict Arnold understood the importance of the Ft. Ticonderoga on the Finger Lake region of New York which was a transportation conduit from Quebec to the Mohawk and Hudson valley regions. Arnold obtained intelligence that the British has re-occupied Ticonderoga which had fallen into serious disrepair after the Seven Years war (French and Indian War here), that it was poorly defended and had a large number of artillery that the Americans saw they had an opportunity to capture and put to good use. The Boston Committee for Safety Commissioned Arnold a Colonial of Militia and gave him authority to recruit 400 men and take Ft. Ticonderoga.

Arnold was unable to recruit the 400 men that he was authorized but headed north with approximately half that number. When he arrived in the area he found that Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys had learned the same intelligence and had arrived on the scene before Arnold. Allen had about half the men that Arnold did but his Green Mountain Boys were some serious BAMF's.

The men that Arnold brought with him were garden variety militiamen. The Green Mountain Boys on the other hand were hard core frontiersman with many years of experience in fighting Indian wars against the Iroquois league (who were serious BAMF's themselves). In short the Green Mountain Boys were the most effective and disciplined group of guerilla fighters on the North American continent (they were also the predecessors of what became, eventually, the U.S. Army Rangers.). Why is this significant? It's significant because the Green Mountain Boy's refused to fight under Arnold's leadership and it was made clear to Arnold that they would not fight under him or in a joint command. They would only fight if Allen was leading the attack.

Given that the Green Mountain Boys were far and away superior fighting men to Arnolds militia he had little choice and assumed a second in command role during the attack.

Now to be fair to Arnold, he probably understood the strategic significance of taking Ticonderoga from the British more so than Allen did as it would allow the Americans to dominate the Finger Lake country meaning that it would be very difficult for the British Army to use that region to supply it's forces in New England via Canada. Also, the artillery that was captured was put to good use later in defending the Boston Commons area.

Having said that Allen was by far and away a superior tactical commander to Arnold. You have no idea what seriously badass guerilla fighters he and the Green Mountain Boys were.
 
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Hmm, that's sounds like an apocryphal story to me. Anyway I thought he was imprisoned and eventually sent back to America as part of a prisoner swap. I wonder why the history books make little mention of the co-captor of Fort Ticonderoga, namely one Benedict Arnold!

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OH...and it was an apocryphal story. The original story teller was Abraham Lincoln. :)
 
When the American Revolutionary War was over Gen. Ethan Allen visited England to visit friends and family long split asunder due to the war.

While in England he was constantly razzed by his host about being an American. One day, in an attempt to get under his skin, they placed a portrait of Gen. George Washington in the outhouse.

Later that day his host asked him what he though about where they had posted the portrait of Washington. Allen replied that it seemed to him to be most appropriate.

Surprised his British host asked him why was that?

To which Gen. Allen said "Why nothing can scare the shit out of an Englishman like seeing Gen. Washington.".

And here I was thinking that he only sold overpriced furniture.
 
Yup. That Abraham Lincoln. Inarguably the greatest man of the 19th Century.

Yeah well that is bullshit on steroids! I see you are a fan of Thomas Carlyle and his Great Man theory. If you are going to play that game then I would suggest that Charles Darwin, Michael Faraday, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, William Wilberforce and Charles Babbage ahead of him!

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Yeah well that is bullshit on steroids! I see you are a fan of Thomas Carlyle and his Great Man theory. If you are going to play that game then I would suggest that Charles Darwin, Michael Faraday, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, William Wilberforce and Charles Babbage ahead of him!

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and you would be wrong. Charles Darwin would be the one only remotely close to being as influential as Lincoln being the father of modern biology but at best he's a distant second to Lincoln where as the others can be pointedly dismissed with the simple question of "Who?". Ironically they were both born on the same day.
 
You do have a hard on for Lincoln, a man that caused an unnecessary war which resulted in over 700,000 deaths. If you have really never heard of Michael Faraday, Charles Babbage and Gregor Mendel then I feel sorry for you. You idolise Lincoln for emancipating the slaves yet William Wilberforce did that and more back in 1833 when his act finally passed that freed all slaves in the British Empire. He also managed to do it without causing a war!!

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You do have a hard on for Lincoln, a man that caused an unnecessary war which resulted in over 700,000 deaths. If you have really never heard of Michael Faraday, Charles Babbage and Gregor Mendel then I feel sorry for you. You idolise Lincoln for emancipating the slaves yet William Wilberforce did that and more back in 1833 when his act finally passed that freed all slaves in the British Empire. He also managed to do it without causing a war!!

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I like you a lot Mott, you know that. But without doubt you have the most annoying habit to start something off and then walk away. Are you like that at home, do you start painting a wall and leave it half finished?

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You do have a hard on for Lincoln, a man that caused an unnecessary war which resulted in over 700,000 deaths. If you have really never heard of Michael Faraday, Charles Babbage and Gregor Mendel then I feel sorry for you. You idolise Lincoln for emancipating the slaves yet William Wilberforce did that and more back in 1833 when his act finally passed that freed all slaves in the British Empire. He also managed to do it without causing a war!!

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Wilberforce didn't have to contend with the morons of the Confederate States of America, for whom the institution of slavery was like a religion. Lincoln offered them the right to continue owning their slaves, but, between his desire to halt its expansion, and his daring to question its morality in the first place, they were not amenable to his presidency. And then the morons went and attacked an American fort.
 
I like you a lot Mott, you know that. But without doubt you're most annoying habit is to start something off and then walk away. Are you like that at home, do you start painting a walk and leave it half finished?

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He probably does that to annoy his wife. :cof1:
 
Wilberforce didn't have to contend with the morons of the Confederate States of America, for whom the institution of slavery was like a religion. Lincoln offered them the right to continue owning their slaves, but, between his desire to halt its expansion, and his daring to question its morality in the first place, they were not amenable to his presidency. And then the morons went and attacked an American fort.
So was that worth the deaths of 700,000 people, considering that the Jim Crow laws weren't much better than being a slave?

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You do have a hard on for Lincoln, a man that caused an unnecessary war which resulted in over 700,000 deaths. If you have really never heard of Michael Faraday, Charles Babbage and Gregor Mendel then I feel sorry for you. You idolise Lincoln for emancipating the slaves yet William Wilberforce did that and more back in 1833 when his act finally passed that freed all slaves in the British Empire. He also managed to do it without causing a war!!

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Great man....
 
So was that worth the deaths of 700,000 people, considering that the Jim Crow laws weren't much better than being a slave?

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The deaths of the 250,000+ Confederates was certainly worthwhile. Much like killing Krauts in WWII, and neither count was high enough in the end.
 
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