For Health Care Reform to Succeed

[Sammy Jankis]

the sad truth is they just want fewer doctors so there must be more rationing of care and more death.

Remember all these central planner types are elitist, nihilist, eugenicists who love mass murder.

 

[zoombwaz]

Comparison of HealthCare Costs: United States vs. Countries with Universal or Single Payer Public Health Insurance




Yo, and Dixie don’t try to spin your way out of this with the laughable, and extremely lame, Rush Limbaugh talking point that our nation is “too big” to have public health insurance.

We already provide decent public health insurance for more people than France, Canada, or Britain do..

Your last point is well-taken. Between the VA, Medicare, the active-duty military and federal employees' free health care (including those Republican assholes in Congress...sorry, redundant... who are talking shit about "Government Run Health Care." NOT ONE of those lying, hypocritical jackoffs has turned down his or her free single-payer health care coverage. The only congressman who has is a Democrat from CA, who won't accept his until all Americans have the same coverage he does. Note to Republicans: that's called principle. I doubt Boehner, Cantor, or McConnell even knows how to spell the word, much less what it means), we are currently providing some level of government-run or governmentn-subsidized health care to more than 65 million people, as compared to France (62 million), the UK (61.4 million), or Canada (31.3 million, including American students enrolled in Canadian colleges and universities, like my daughter, who as a graduate student pays a whopping $48 a month for health care with no other out of pocket expenses except dirt-cheap prescription drugs.) France and the UK provide Americans, whether resident students or visitors, with health care at no cost of any kind. My parents, who have traveled extensively in Europe, and my daughter, also well-traveled in Europe, and who studied in the UK as an undergraduate, have all had occasion to require medical care while in foreign countries, and all have reported excellent care.

BTW, before anybody starts up on the horrors of VA health care, let me lay the blame for that squarely on the worthless shoulders of George W. Bush, whose under-funding of the VA bordered on criminal. Yes, I know he increased funding for the VA by $19 billion, the largest increaser by any president, but the cost of care for the flood of gravely-wounded soldiers and veterans from Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq overwhelmed that level of funding, rendering it wholly inadequate to the task of providing care for the American victims of Bush's war crimes, and made a sick joke of the GOP's bragging about his magnanimous funding.

 

[zoombwaz]

What is currently being proposed by you and the idiots on Capitol Hill, will ultimately deliver WORSE quality care, LESS availability, and HIGHER cost. You can't suddenly start providing health care for millions of people at little or no cost to them, and expect the cost to go down, it just defies reason and logic. Whether it is health insurance or the actual health care itself, the more you "make it available" the more it will be used, and the more it is used, the more it will cost. Nothing currently on the table even addresses the cost of health care, except to say, if you can't afford it, Joe Taxpayer will foot the bill.

In order to deal with the COST of health care, you have to attack problems which drive cost. The effects of outrageous and frivolous lawsuits have driven the cost of malpractice insurance through the roof, and every practicing physician HAS to pay for this. How can they pay for it? Well, they only have one ultimate source of income, right? Now, this is where your liberal hearts start bleeding all over the place and alter your ability to be reasonable. People should indeed be able to seek damages for negligence and malpractice, no one is saying they shouldn't, but the level of the rewards has gotten absurd, and there seems to be no limits whatsoever being imposed. I think at some point, we have to say... okay, you were injured through no fault of your own and are entitled to a monetary compensation, but this isn't the NY State Lottery, and Ed McMahon isn't going to show up at your door with a big check. AND... although Ambulance Chasers would have to find a legitimate source of income, it would help to regulate them as well. They simply shouldn't be able to run 24/7 commercials on TV, essentially saying, hey guys... come join us in our ass raping of the makers of 'Utopium' because there may be a buck in it for you!

I am not sure how you solve the illegal immigrant problem in our emergency rooms without first solving the illegal immigration problem, but this is another factor driving up the cost. Here we have people who aren't even paying taxes, aren't even on the grid, and yet we are required to provide them with medical care in ER's across the country. Just as it is with malpractice insurance, SOMEONE has to pay for this! Ultimately, in a capitalist system, that SOMEONE is the consumer.

Yet another area driving cost, is unfunded federal mandates and regulations. Things the health care industry simply HAS to do, regardless of how much it costs them to do it, because the government says so. A lot of this is just restrictive, controlling, bureaucratic red tape, and either redundant or obsolete, or both. From a free-market perspective, one of the most crucial things is government prohibiting health insurance companies from crossing state lines, like in the auto insurance industry. To do this, would automatically create a thing us capitalists like to call... COMPETITION! You communists may not be aware, but generally speaking, it is this competition thingy which causes lower prices for the consumer. No, really... It does!

Wrong again. The effect of malpractice lawsuits, which are hardly frivolous, is negligible: 1/2 of 1%. What drives up the cost of malpractice insurance has nothing to do with lawsuits. The states which have enacted caps on jury awards have not accomplished anything beside screwing their citizens out of just compemsation for injuries suffered. The malpractice rates have increased in those states at the same rate as the states with no caps.

Why?

Greed.

A couple of years ago, I did some online research on the finances of the malpractice insurance carriers, to determine exactly what the impact of lasuits was, and what I found was no mention (as in none, nada , zero, zip, zilch) of lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise), awards, juries, doctors, hospitals, or anything remotely connected to healthcare. What i did find was on the website of Weiss Reports, a well-respected investment rating service which rates market sectors, as well as individual companies, for their value to investors. The malpractice sector of the insurance market, carried a much-improved rating by Weiss, noting that the sector's disappointing performance the prior year was due to some bad real-estate investments by the companies that offer the insurance, but that in the current year, they had regained their liquidity by raising their malpractice rates, and the sector was once again healthy, and provided a solid investment opportunity.

Let me repeat that, because it bears repeating: malpractice insurance rates are not going up because of lawsuits. THEY ARE GOING UP TO COVER LOSSES DUE TO LOUSY REAL-ESTATE INVESTMENTS. ONCE AGAIN, THE PUBLIC PAYS FOR FUCK-UPS BY THE DIM-BULB CHILDREN OF GREAT WEALTH, like Monty Python's "Upper Class Twit of the Year Contest," a very funny skit which became somewhat less so when we allowed one of them to steal two presidential elections.

 

[Topspin]

zoo=hack

 

[zoombwaz]

No, I read your post and responded in total. I didn't break it down into individual parts and address it point by point, because frankly, you didn't make any points. All I read was a bunch of unfounded blather and your opinion based on how you view the real world.

For health care reform to work, first there must be reform! Presently, we don't have reform, we have a complete dismantling of an entire capitalist system and replacing it with a socialist system. We already know from past history, this will not ever work, and can only lead to worse health care quality for every American. Still, you press forward with your Fascist ideas and philosophies of how you would make this work, even when the majority of America is in total disagreement with you.

So which is it; fascist or socialist? Make up your mind. It can't be both. BTW, show us evidence of your claim that the "majority of America is in total disagreement with [him]." Also please show the "past history" to which you refer. The history of single payer health care shows it works so well that once it is adopted, nobody wants to change back, with polls showing consistently that the system enjoys overwhelming public support everywhere it has been tried.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

So which is it; fascist or socialist? Make up your mind. It can't be both. BTW, show us evidence of your claim that the "majority of America is in total disagreement with [him]." Also please show the "past history" to which you refer. The history of single payer health care shows it works so well that once it is adopted, nobody wants to change back, with polls showing consistently that the system enjoys overwhelming public support everywhere it has been tried.

There are often socialists elements of a fascist state. They;re not really mutually exclusive.

 

[zoombwaz]

First of all, I have no idea what Rush says about this, I haven't listened to him in years. My knowledge and understanding of capitalism and free markets versus socialism and communism, is from years of school studies, not some popular talk show host, but I understand how you put so much stock in people like Olbermann and Matthews.

Secondly, you have not addressed the issue of cost, and what you are proposing will actually drive cost up for everyone, while diminishing quality of care. I explained in detail, exactly how that happens with your plan. You dismiss this as a talking point, but could it be a talking point because it's true?

Thirdly, you can make all the claims you wish about small European socialist systems and their answer to health care, one fact you simply can't get around is, they don't have the best quality health care system in the world, because WE DO!

Finally... let me address this stupidity: "a handful of insurance companies can be megawealthy while a third of the population is either underserved or not served at all" I guess it's not good enough to tell one lie per sentence, you have to go for the old double lie? As I said before, health insurance companies make, on average, 4% profit. No one is getting rich in healthcare insurance, if you don't believe me, go check the stock histories of ANY health insurance company, and tell me what you find! So you are absolutely flat out wrong on this one point, yet you continue to make assumptions and draw conclusions based on ignorance of truth. Next is this myth that a third of the population is under-served or not served. Again, indigent care laws were passed in the 1980s, and every medical facility in America is obligated by law, to render emergency medical service to any person, regardless of ability to pay or even legality as a citizen. Health clinics operated by the state, are available to everyone in America at little or no cost. So the very idea that some people can't get health care is absurd. It is certainly made available in every major American city at little or no cost at all.

What we are left with, is your emotional-driven nitwitisms. You can't help letting envy and jealousy of what others might have, cloud your judgment and comprehension of fact. It's easier for you to believe the absurd, and think there is a way to realize Utopia, if we would only take wealth from these people and give it to those. Nothing you have suggested, would cause the cost of health insurance to go down, it is impossible for that to happen, if the insurance is forced to cover everyone. The availability CAN NOT increase by dramatically increasing demand! Your very own reasoning has our current health care system taking on an additional third of the population (those who are underserved or not served), so how can you ADD a third more clients, yet be more available? It is impossible and defies any common sense or logic to believe this. Still... it's what you believe!

Not to mention those ever-elusive "unintended consequences" that liberals never seem to realize or think about until ten years down the road, when Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden are staring stupidly into the cameras and telling us that we didn't see this coming... we didn't know all the doctors were going to quit and throw our entire health care system into chaos... so now we have to pass this multi-trillion dollar government program to train new doctors! And it fucking never ends with liberals, they will keep heaping failed government programs on top of other failures, and pass the cost on to the next generation.

I want you to all think about this for a moment... Currently, if we have a problem with our insurance coverage, we call a toll-free number and talk to the insurance company... Anyone who has done this will admit it is sometimes wrought with frustration, but we do have some means of recourse, there is a toll-free number to call! Think about how it will be when the government takes this over... do you think we'll have a toll-free number? Will there be any recourse for the consumer, or will we get a pre-recorded message and the usual indifference we get from government in every other area they hold a monopoly on?

Yep. Medicare has several toll free numbers, and I have never had a problem getting information or dealing with billing questions. I have never had a problem getting a live person to talk to, and they are anything but indifferent.

Buy a clue.

 

[Topspin]

well my wife works in medical billing an she says "and you want the gov to control you healthcare"
zoo your passed a partisan hack

 

[Sammy Jankis]

zoombwas say, "Big Brother is your friend"

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Also please show the "past history" to which you refer. The history of single payer health care shows it works so well that once it is adopted, nobody wants to change back, with polls showing consistently that the system enjoys overwhelming public support everywhere it has been tried.

its not that nobody wants to go back, it's impossible to go back. single payer destroys the system it was meant to fix.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Originally Posted by Dixie:
No, I read your post and responded in total. I didn't break it down into individual parts and address it point by point, because frankly, you didn't make any points. All I read was a bunch of unfounded blather and your opinion based on how you view the real world.

For health care reform to work, first there must be reform! Presently, we don't have reform, we have a complete dismantling of an entire capitalist system and replacing it with a socialist system. We already know from past history, this will not ever work, and can only lead to worse health care quality for every American. Still, you press forward with your Fascist ideas and philosophies of how you would make this work, even when the majority of America is in total disagreement with you.

So which is it; fascist or socialist? Make up your mind. It can't be both. BTW, show us evidence of your claim that the "majority of America is in total disagreement with [him]." Also please show the "past history" to which you refer. The history of single payer health care shows it works so well that once it is adopted, nobody wants to change back, with polls showing consistently that the system enjoys overwhelming public support everywhere it has been tried.

You apparently have trouble with reading comprehension as well as a lack of understanding of what socialism and fascism are. If you will re-read what I posted, I stated in about the clearest English possible, that your program is socialist, and your suggested means of implementation is fascist. And yes, it can be both.

Show you the evidence that the majority is in disagreement?

OK... http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

If you need a lesson on failed socialism in the past century of world history, go crack open a library book and study all about it, I don't have time to list all of the dismal examples of socialist failure here. The reason your stupid single-payer system isn't abandoned after it's implemented, is because it can't be! Once you've destroyed a capitalist system, what the fuck are you going to do? There is nothing to go back to!