For Political Junkies only: 2 questions!

CanadianKid

New member
1. Name the time when you misjudged or regretted support for a politician the most? (Note you must have at one point supported the person)

CK: Believing that Barack Obama was a liberal

2. Name the biggest political bullshit that happened in your lifetime?

CK: Supreme Court screwing Gore and awarding Bush the presidency...

Close second: Bush fooling the voters/politicos/media to invade Iraq
 
lol...obama is not a liberal, lmao

bush won the election fairly, if you claim bush fooled people, then where is your condemnation for countless others who believed and said as bush did...do we really need to get all the dem leaders quotes again?
 
1. Nixon, greatly disappointed me, I campaigned for him in high school and then Watergate

2. Vietnam and Iraq wars were the worst political bullshit that happened in my life! The two are tied, it is hard to say which is worst.
 
1. Nixon, greatly disappointed me, I campaigned for him in high school and then Watergate

2. Vietnam and Iraq wars were the worst political bullshit that happened in my life! The two are tied, it is hard to say which is worst.
Take it from someone who was active duty in both places. Vietnam was, by far, the worse. And if you don't believe me, go look at casualty rates.

1: Carter was a huge disappointment for me. I thought he had a large number of good ideas, but when it came down to it, he was not even able to meet minds with his own party in congress, he was a laughing stock in foreign policy, and those few of his ideas that managed to get pushed into action were horribly mismanaged. He is a decent statesman. But never should have been president.

2: Vietnam will possibly be forever the biggest travesty pushed on this country.
 
My husband is a vet of the war, I am all TOO aware of the carnage and the lies that lead us to war.

Thanks for your service.
 
1. Regretted (with a passion) supporting Jimmy Carter in 1976. I have never cast a Democrat vote for president since, and probably never will again.

2. The passage of Obamacare.
 
Not sure about #1, but as for #2, the Trent Lott "Scandal" is still a pretty lame example of a nontroversy. Granted, its also an example of brown-nosing, and Lott is an idiot, but I suddenly noticed, as I was about 16 or so at the time, that teenagers can indeed be smarter and more rational than adults many times their age...
 
So starting unnecessary wars aren't bigger?

See... we disagree on the 'necessity' of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the war in Vietnam, for that matter. So, no, those are not bigger political bullshit than passing a partisan load of liberal horseshit on the American people against their will, simply because you have the majority in Congress.
 
See... we disagree on the 'necessity' of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the war in Vietnam, for that matter. So, no, those are not bigger political bullshit than passing a partisan load of liberal horseshit on the American people against their will, simply because you have the majority in Congress.
We've debated the "necessity" of Iraq before, and stayed at disagreement. I say we could have accomplished what we needed to without a ground war. You say not.

However, what the FUCK was the "necessity" behind Vietnam?
 
We've debated the "necessity" of Iraq before, and stayed at disagreement. I say we could have accomplished what we needed to without a ground war. You say not.

However, what the FUCK was the "necessity" behind Vietnam?

Communist aggression into Southeast Asia, potentially threatening strategic American outposts in the South Pacific. Yeah, I know, you've been taught to believe it was a totally unnecessary war that should have never been fought. I believe it was a necessary war that should have been won.
 
Communist aggression into Southeast Asia, potentially threatening strategic American outposts in the South Pacific. Yeah, I know, you've been taught to believe it was a totally unnecessary war that should have never been fought. I believe it was a necessary war that should have been won.
I fought that damned war. I have not been "taught" a damned thing. I talk from direct knowledge and experience. The whole thing was utter bullshit. The so-called fear that our SE Asia assets were threatened has been proven by history itself were trumped up excuses. The only direct effect on the U.S. by the unification of Vietnam was American soldiers stopped dying over there.
 
I fought that damned war. I have not been "taught" a damned thing. I talk from direct knowledge and experience. The whole thing was utter bullshit. The so-called fear that our SE Asia assets were threatened has been proven by history itself were trumped up excuses. The only direct effect on the U.S. by the unification of Vietnam was American soldiers stopped dying over there.

My brother fought that war, and died there. With all due respect to your 'direct knowledge and experience', unless you were a high ranking General or Secretary of Defense, you probably don't know what you're talking about, with regard to the reasons we had to fight that war. History has proven nothing, except that it was a disastrous mistake for us to give up on the war and lose it. Millions of people died needlessly, at the hands of the Communist regimes, in the wake of our departure, and history has recorded it as our worst military failure. It created the conditions for a 40-year Cold War with the Soviets, costing us trillions in an insane nuclear arms race. Had we resoundingly defeated the Vietcong, and shown our military might in the manner which we were indeed capable of, the history of Communism may have been completely different. The "mistake" in Vietnam, was failing to go balls-to-the-wall and win it.

You can not post-analyze war in a vacuum, and far too many people tend to do this. You assume that Communist aggression wasn't a big deal, because after Vietnam, it wasn't a big deal, but things happen as a result of other things happening. If we had not fought the British in the War of 1812, the British may have backed the Confederates in the Civil War, and the outcome of that could have been dramatically different. There is no way to say, Communists wouldn't have taken over the entire South Pacific, had we not drawn the line in the sand at Vietnam. Because of the protraction and attrition of that war, it stifled the Communist expansion, and as the 70s brought economic challenges to both us and the Communists, the motivations changed, and therefore, history was changed. To look back and say, well, the Communists didn't take over the South Pacific, and that proves they didn't intend to, is foolhardy and stupid. Had we not confronted them in Vietnam, what would have prevented them from expanding further?
 
1. Name the time when you misjudged or regretted support for a politician the most? (Note you must have at one point supported the person)

CK: Believing that Barack Obama was a liberal

2. Name the biggest political bullshit that happened in your lifetime?

CK: Supreme Court screwing Gore and awarding Bush the presidency...

Close second: Bush fooling the voters/politicos/media to invade Iraq

1. reagan

2. scotus ruling that corporations are citizens followed by allowing corporations unlimited funding of political ideas
 
1. Name the time when you misjudged or regretted support for a politician the most? (Note you must have at one point supported the person)

CK: Believing that Barack Obama was a liberal

2. Name the biggest political bullshit that happened in your lifetime?

CK: Supreme Court screwing Gore and awarding Bush the presidency...

Close second: Bush fooling the voters/politicos/media to invade Iraq

Mojo: Jimmy Carter
Mojo: Watergate
 
1. Name the time when you misjudged or regretted support for a politician the most? (Note you must have at one point supported the person)

CK: Believing that Barack Obama was a liberal

2. Name the biggest political bullshit that happened in your lifetime?

CK: Supreme Court screwing Gore and awarding Bush the presidency...

Close second: Bush fooling the voters/politicos/media to invade Iraq


1. I misjudged Ross Perot after supporting his candidacy.

2. The Iraq war.
 
My brother fought that war, and died there. With all due respect to your 'direct knowledge and experience', unless you were a high ranking General or Secretary of Defense, you probably don't know what you're talking about, with regard to the reasons we had to fight that war. History has proven nothing, except that it was a disastrous mistake for us to give up on the war and lose it. Millions of people died needlessly, at the hands of the Communist regimes, in the wake of our departure, and history has recorded it as our worst military failure. It created the conditions for a 40-year Cold War with the Soviets, costing us trillions in an insane nuclear arms race. Had we resoundingly defeated the Vietcong, and shown our military might in the manner which we were indeed capable of, the history of Communism may have been completely different. The "mistake" in Vietnam, was failing to go balls-to-the-wall and win it.

You can not post-analyze war in a vacuum, and far too many people tend to do this. You assume that Communist aggression wasn't a big deal, because after Vietnam, it wasn't a big deal, but things happen as a result of other things happening. If we had not fought the British in the War of 1812, the British may have backed the Confederates in the Civil War, and the outcome of that could have been dramatically different. There is no way to say, Communists wouldn't have taken over the entire South Pacific, had we not drawn the line in the sand at Vietnam. Because of the protraction and attrition of that war, it stifled the Communist expansion, and as the 70s brought economic challenges to both us and the Communists, the motivations changed, and therefore, history was changed. To look back and say, well, the Communists didn't take over the South Pacific, and that proves they didn't intend to, is foolhardy and stupid. Had we not confronted them in Vietnam, what would have prevented them from expanding further?
You are truly an idiot studying hard to be a mere moron. Where do you get your history from? The McCarthy Diaries?

First of all, we were not, and never have fought "communists". Right there you are so beyond the pale as to be barely worth replying to. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the primary mover behind arming the North Vietnamese, though they never did send any actual troops of any consequence, proving they were smarter than we were in that instance.

It was all a PART of the stupid assed Cold War. The idea that the Cold War was the result of us letting ourselves get kicked back home is assinine. We were well ensconced in the cold war prior to AND post Vietnam. And 40 years? What a fucking laugh. Vietnam was fought between 1955 and 1975, with U.S. combat operations lasting from 1965 to 1973. Last I looked the Cold War is considered to have "officially" ended in 1991 (some claim 1988) - which is 15-18 years after we left Vietnam. Where is the "40 years of Cold war" our loss "created the conditions" for? Either you are lying through your teeth, completely ignorant of genuine history, or can't do basic arithmetic.

We went there because the USSR was sending arms to the NVA. The USSR increased their support of North Vietnam BECAUSE we were there. Had we not gotten our noses in where they did not belong, the entire fiasco would have been limited to the North kicking the Frogs out (what started the damned war) and reuniting the country which had been divided by foreign (French) interference. The entire "communist aggression" bullshit was just that: pure unadulterated fresh and steaming bovine excrement.

Your "gotta fight the commies" crap was recognized for what it was decades ago. Evidently your are too fucking ignorant to have gotten the news.
 
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Your "gotta fight the commies" crap was recognized for what it was decades ago...

Yeah, just like fighting the radical Islamic terrorists is being recognized by pinheads today!

You are wrong, you'll be wrong for all of history, and nothing you can ever say to me, will ever change my mind on that. The best thing you can do, is drop it and don't bring it up again, because we're not going to ever agree. You can whine and moan, call me names and belittle me, and you can essentially rewrite history to portray it how you wish, but it's still not going to change my mind, or what I know and understand to be the truth.
 
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