Giuliani Whack Job

Damocles

Damocles

Accedo!
Staff member
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/25/mob-bosses-discussed-whacking-giuliani-in-80s/

October 25, 2007
Mob bosses discussed whacking Giuliani in '80's

NEW YORK (AP) – The bosses of New York's five Mafia families discussed killing Rudy Giuliani in 1986 when he was a mob-busting federal prosecutor, according to testimony Wednesday in the murder trial of a former FBI agent.

The details about the plot — which never took shape — were given to ex-FBI agent Roy Lindley DeVecchio by the late Gregory Scarpa Sr., a capo-turned-informant, according to the testimony of FBI agent William Bolinder.

DeVecchio is accused of forming an illicit alliance with Scarpa that lead to at least four slayings. He has denied the allegations.

More at link...
 
That whole "tough on crime" nonsense is the only thing he's got other than 9/11/2001. Of course, the statistics don't support the illusion -- not if you look at the national trends as well as those of NYC -- but it's what he's got.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
That whole "tough on crime" nonsense is the only thing he's got other than 9/11/2001. Of course, the statistics don't support the illusion -- not if you look at the national trends as well as those of NYC -- but it's what he's got.
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Not quite what the NYT had to say about it...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0CE1DC1F30F931A35752C0A961958260

''It happens because the communities cooperate and it happens because the spirit of the city is now changing,'' he said at the 44th Precinct station in the South Bronx. ''If you were on 42d Street last night you would see a different kind of celebration than you saw four or five years ago: People having a wonderful time. People having a terrific time. But people not violating each other, hurting each other.''

The drop in crime is considered a major plus in Mr. Giuliani's drive for re-election, and he has already begun to portray himself as the one person with the experience to keep crime down. Some political analysts see it as such an accomplishment -- with drops greater than most experts would have thought possible -- that his Democratic opponents will simply have to say that lower crime means the city must now focus on other issues, like education.
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He created an environment where the homicides in NYC dropped below 1000 in a year for the first time since 1968. Seriously, what he did was effective.
 
Damocles said:
Not quite what the NYT had to say about it...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0CE1DC1F30F931A35752C0A961958260



He created an environment where the homicides in NYC dropped below 1000 in a year for the first time since 1968. Seriously, what he did was effective.
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Correlation and causality again, Damo. Homicides dipped by similar amounts in other major cities -- by an even greater percentage in San Francisco, for example -- during the same period WITHOUT implementing Giuliani's Draconian, anti-freedom policies.

He's taking credit for a trend that had nothing whatsoever to do with him or his policies. That's nothing new for a politician but it's still bullshit.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Correlation and causality again, Damo. Homicides dipped by similar amounts in other major cities -- by an even greater percentage in San Francisco, for example -- during the same period WITHOUT implementing Giuliani's Draconian, anti-freedom policies.

He's taking credit for a trend that had nothing whatsoever to do with him or his policies. That's nothing new for a politician but it's still bullshit.
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What was the causality of that dip in the other places?
 
I'd also add that the decrease in crime rates in NYC began under Mayor Dinkins, Rudy's predecessor, and continued under Giuliani.
 
Damocles said:
What was the causality of that dip in the other places?
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It was probably changes in income and culture. People attribute far too much to the government.

Crime has continued to drop in New York after Guliani left. That's why Bloomberg has approval ratings so much higher than Guliani. He's dropped crime by just as much without having to use such draconian measures.
 
Watermark said:
It was probably changes in income and culture. People attribute far too much to the government.

Crime has continued to drop in New York after Guliani left. That's why Bloomberg has approval ratings so much higher than Guliani. He's dropped crime by just as much without having to use such draconian measures.
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Actually the implemented changes of Giuliani remain in place.
 
Damocles said:
Actually the implemented changes of Giuliani remain in place.
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What did he do? Kick the homeless out of New York? Up sentences by one or two years? How was that supposed to help anything?

The vast majority of the crime decrease in New York was due to the people, not the government. The government can put down any draconian measures it wants to "fight" crime, but in the end it's the attitude of the people that makes the difference.
 
Watermark said:
What did he do? Kick the homeless out of New York? Up sentences by one or two years? How was that supposed to help anything?

The vast majority of the crime decrease in New York was due to the people, not the government. The government can put down any draconian measures it wants to "fight" crime, but in the end it's the attitude of the people that makes the difference.
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Set standards where LE was held more accountable was one of the largest of the contributors. The "kicked the homeless out" thing is also simply a myth. Nobody "kicked the homeless out" of NYC.

Did you even bother to read the NYT article that was written during the time he was in office that I linked to earlier or did you just read other people's posts and start spouting off about how it didn't factor in?

The reality is that crime lowering elsewhere has little to do with whether or not his programs contributed to lower crime in NYC.
 
Maybe his programs did lower crime. But I seriously doubt they were the major contributor. It's not like it has to be one or the other, anyway, it can be both. The real question is, to what degree?
 
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