Greece Illustrates 150 Years of Socialist Failure in Europe

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Greece Illustrates 150 Years of Socialist Failure in Europe

07/03/2015Patrick Barron
Greece cannot pay its debts ... ever. Nor can several other members of the European Union. That’s why Europe’s elite are loath to place Greece in default. If Greece is allowed to abrogate its debts, why should any of the other debtor members of the EU pay up? The financial consequences of massive default by most of the EU members is hard to predict, but it won't be pretty. Europe has built a financial house of cards, and the slightest loss of confidence will bring it crashing down.

The tragedy of Europe has socialism at its core. Europe has flirted with socialism since the late nineteenth century. Nineteenth century Bismarckian socialism produced two world wars. Leninist socialism slaughtered and enslaved hundreds of millions until it collapsed, mercifully without a third world war. Yet, not to be deterred, in the ashes of World War II, Europe’s socialists embarked on a new socialist dream. If socialism fails in one country, perhaps it will succeed if all of Europe joined a supra-national socialist organization. Oh, they don't call what has evolved from this dream “socialism,” but it is socialism nonetheless.

Socialism will not work, whether in one country, a multi-state region such as Europe, or the entire world. Ludwig von Mises explained that socialism is not an alternative economic system. It is a program for consumption. It tells us nothing about economic production. Since each man's production must be distributed to all of mankind, there is no economic incentive to produce anything, although there may be the incentive of coercion and threats of violence. Conversely, free market capitalism is an economic system of production, whereby each man owns the product of his own labors and, therefore, has great economic incentives to produce both for himself, his family, and has surplus goods to trade for the surplus product of others. Even under life and death threats neither the socialist worker nor his overseer would know what to produce, how to produce it, or in what quantities and qualities. These economic cues are the product of free market capitalism and money prices.

Under capitalism, man specializes to produce trade goods for the product of others. This is just one way of stating Say’s Law; i.e., that production precedes consumption and that production itself creates demand. For example, a farmer may grow some corn for his family to consume or to feed to his own livestock, but he sells most of his corn on the market in exchange for money with which to buy all the many other necessities and luxuries of life. His corn crop is his demand and money is simply the indirect medium of exchange.

Keynes attempted to deny Say’s Law, claiming that demand itself — created artificially by central bank money printing — would spur production. He attempted, illogically and unsuccessfully, to place consumption ahead of production. To this day Keynes is very popular with spendthrift politicians, to whom he bestowed a moral imperative to spend money that they did not have.

We see the result of 150 years of European socialism playing out in grand style in Greece today. The producing countries are beginning to realize that they have been robbed by the EU’s socialist guarantee that no nation will be allowed to default on its bonds. Greece merely accepted this guarantee at face value and spent itself into national bankruptcy. Other EU nations are not far behind. It’s time to give free market capitalism and sound money a chance: it’s worked every time it’s been tried.

https://mises.org/library/greece-illustrates-150-years-socialist-failure-europe

America and its 20 trillion $ debt is following the stupidity of the insane Europeans.
 
Wow it is more complicated than a single issue. The author obviously does not get why Says law would get turned on it's head in any recession, let alone a depression such as Greece is in. Keynesians believe an economy functions because of consumer demand, and sometimes the government needs to fuel this consumer demand. The problem with Greece is they racked up way more debt, than they could possibly pay off. The author is blaming what he see's as Social programs,then lump's them all together as socialism, and bam that is the problem. That is silly all of Western Europe have Social programs, and are Capitalist Counties.
It also shows the problems of the E.U; Greece does not have their own currency, and the bailout terms terms are expressed in Euro's. Greek citizens have marched against austerity for years, but they don’t seem ready to go back to the drachma, and lose the perceived prestige they think the eurozone provides. Unlike England the Greeks just can not opt out, if they do that would only make things worse.
 
Wow it is more complicated than a single issue. The author obviously does not get why Says law would get turned on it's head in any recession, let alone a depression such as Greece is in. Keynesians believe an economy functions because of consumer demand, and sometimes the government needs to fuel this consumer demand. The problem with Greece is they racked up way more debt, than they could possibly pay off. The author is blaming what he see's as Social programs,then lump's them all together as socialism, and bam that is the problem. That is silly all of Western Europe have Social programs, and are Capitalist Counties.
It also shows the problems of the E.U; Greece does not have their own currency, and the bailout terms terms are expressed in Euro's. Greek citizens have marched against austerity for years, but they don’t seem ready to go back to the drachma, and lose the perceived prestige they think the eurozone provides. Unlike England the Greeks just can not opt out, if they do that would only make things worse.

How many times does it have to stare you in the face before you admit your ideology is insane?

Venezuela’s Socialist experiment in decline.

Socialism has been blamed for turning Venezuela “into an authoritarian basket case,” but the broadcast news networks rarely admit that. In fact, the networks have even generally avoided identifying the country as socialist. This is especially important since the Obama administration just declared the nation a “national security threat and ordered sanctions against seven officials,” according to Reuters.

Venezuela’s leaders have clearly identified themselves as socialists. Late leftist president Hugo Chavez proclaimed, “We're heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it.” Chavez’s successor Nicolás Maduro was elected in in April 2013 also committed himself to pursue “21st century socialism,” according to CNN.

“They call themselves a socialist regime,” Dr. Alejandro Chafuen, president of the free-market organization Atlas Network, told MRC Business. “You have to start by believing what they say.”

Yet the broadcast news networks failed to describe Maduro or the Venezuelan government as socialist or autocratic in more than 87 percent of stories (28 out of 32) about Venezuela’s economy or unrest. MRC Business looked at morning and evening news stories and news briefs between Jan. 1, 2014, and March 8, 2015. Not one of those reports clearly linked Maduro’s or Chavez’s policies to the problems faced by the country.

Chavez pushed Venezuela toward socialism after being elected to power in 1998. In 2015, that’s largely forgotten.

“Chavez advanced a hybrid economic program of nationalizations, socialist economics, free spending social programs, price and exchange controls, and crony capitalism dubbed ‘Socialism of the 21st Century,’” The Heritage Foundation’s Senior Policy Analyst for Latin America Dr. Ray Walser and Research Associate Jessica Zuckerman said March 6, 2013.

Read more at http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/jo...ezuela-isnt-socialist-more-87-network-stories
 
How many times does it have to stare you in the face before you admit your ideology is insane?

Venezuela’s Socialist experiment in decline.

Socialism has been blamed for turning Venezuela “into an authoritarian basket case,” but the broadcast news networks rarely admit that. In fact, the networks have even generally avoided identifying the country as socialist. This is especially important since the Obama administration just declared the nation a “national security threat and ordered sanctions against seven officials,” according to Reuters.

Venezuela’s leaders have clearly identified themselves as socialists. Late leftist president Hugo Chavez proclaimed, “We're heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it.” Chavez’s successor Nicolás Maduro was elected in in April 2013 also committed himself to pursue “21st century socialism,” according to CNN.

“They call themselves a socialist regime,” Dr. Alejandro Chafuen, president of the free-market organization Atlas Network, told MRC Business. “You have to start by believing what they say.”

Yet the broadcast news networks failed to describe Maduro or the Venezuelan government as socialist or autocratic in more than 87 percent of stories (28 out of 32) about Venezuela’s economy or unrest. MRC Business looked at morning and evening news stories and news briefs between Jan. 1, 2014, and March 8, 2015. Not one of those reports clearly linked Maduro’s or Chavez’s policies to the problems faced by the country.

Chavez pushed Venezuela toward socialism after being elected to power in 1998. In 2015, that’s largely forgotten.

“Chavez advanced a hybrid economic program of nationalizations, socialist economics, free spending social programs, price and exchange controls, and crony capitalism dubbed ‘Socialism of the 21st Century,’” The Heritage Foundation’s Senior Policy Analyst for Latin America Dr. Ray Walser and Research Associate Jessica Zuckerman said March 6, 2013.

Read more at http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/jo...ezuela-isnt-socialist-more-87-network-stories

I am not an ideologist, those that cling to a single ideology end up looking silly when they have to defend it when it is failing. Greece, Venezuela, economy and government are different as night and day when compared to each other. Compare either to the U.S, and there is not even a remote resemblance.

The Heritage foundation is a Conservative so called "think Tank" and tends to only think one way. It is not as bad as most of the Garbage sites you reference, but they certainly do not end the discussion.
 
I am not an ideologist, those that cling to a single ideology end up looking silly when they have to defend it when it is failing. Greece, Venezuela, economy and government are different as night and day when compared to each other. Compare either to the U.S, and there is not even a remote resemblance.

The Heritage foundation is a Conservative so called "think Tank" and tends to only think one way. It is not as bad as most of the Garbage sites you reference, but they certainly do not end the discussion.

The Soviet Union, socialist central government planning, failed! North Korea, a socialist central government planning dictatorship, a fucking disaster. Cuba, a central planned socialist government and an impoverished nation. China a socialist central government planned nation converting to capitalism. Vietnam, a central government planned socialist nation converting to capitalism. Canada, a central government planned nation reverting to capitalism. Most European nations, highly taxed centrally planned socialist nations on the edge of bankruptcy. America, a socialist central government planned nation 20 trillion $ in debt flirting with bankruptcy.
 
The Soviet Union, socialist central government planning, failed! North Korea, a socialist central government planning dictatorship, a fucking disaster. Cuba, a central planned socialist government and an impoverished nation. China a socialist central government planned nation converting to capitalism. Vietnam, a central government planned socialist nation converting to capitalism. Canada, a central government planned nation reverting to capitalism. Most European nations, highly taxed centrally planned socialist nations on the edge of bankruptcy. America, a socialist central government planned nation 20 trillion $ in debt flirting with bankruptcy.

Central planning, and state controlled industries had nothing at all to do with what happened in Greece. You are confusing communism with Social programs in countries that have a free Market economy. The whole theory of Greece being Communist ignores the Greek Civil War of 1946 against the Communist.
 
Central planning, and state controlled industries had nothing at all to do with what happened in Greece. You are confusing communism with Social programs in countries that have a free Market economy. The whole theory of Greece being Communist ignores the Greek Civil War of 1946 against the Communist.

Then you're submitting that government social programs are NOT central government socialist planning? Where's the alleged "free market" in socialist programming? Who gets to "freely trade" his/her tax money for the support of the people that the government is buying their votes from?

"The problem with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other people's money." (Maggie Thacher) Does that describe Greece and Venezuela or what Willie?
 
Then you're submitting that government social programs are NOT central government socialist planning? Where's the alleged "free market" in socialist programming? Who gets to "freely trade" his/her tax money for the support of the people that the government is buying their votes from?

"The problem with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other people's money." (Maggie Thacher) Does that describe Greece and Venezuela or what Willie?

Dude look at the business page, or go shopping; you live in a country with a free market. Central planning goes hand - and - hand with state controlled industries, there is no supply reacting to consumer demand. In Communist countries, government controls, industry, and agriculture; the government sets production quotas, prices, and wages. So if there is a demand for toilet paper (any commodity), and the government owned factory cranks out their production goal that falls short of actual demand - you get long lines, or black Markets with higher prices for the toilet paper.

Social program in the United States, run by the government, are paid by tax's that are collected, in the free market . There is no secret boogie men trying to turn the U.S in to a Communist country, because there are social programs. So all these nut links you are reading and posting, have little or nothing to do with reality. Thatchers quote is taken out of context, she was talking about taxes rising above what can possibly be collected, and government foreclosing on, and controlling industry. That is not happening here or England. What industry has the government foreclosed on and now controls?
 
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