Healthcare..Please Demonstrate Why We Should Not Move Towards Public?Private Hybrid

A

Agnosticus_Caesar

Fuck You Too
Enough said?

I'm a fiscal moderate. I feel that the free market should always be the first choice, and only when it is OBVIOUSLY not working, should we look elsewhere.

It is OBVIOUSLY not working. Next step, Private-Public cooperative.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
Enough said?

I'm a fiscal moderate. I feel that the free market should always be the first choice, and only when it is OBVIOUSLY not working, should we look elsewhere.

It is OBVIOUSLY not working. Next step, Private-Public cooperative.
Click to expand...
Please tell us where the "free market" holds sway in health care. I'd love to have seen that, it is one of the more heavily regulated and executive ordered areas of commerce ever known to man, the only one that might be more regulated is banking.
 
A hybrid along these lines works in Australia (I said it "works", not that it couldn't do with a lot of improvement).

Right about the restraints on trade though, the medical profession here is so tightly regulated - by itself - that it's not funny. But then as G.B.Shaw said, "all professions are conspiracies against the laity".
 
Damocles said:
Please tell us where the "free market" holds sway in health care. I'd love to have seen that, it is one of the more heavily regulated and executive ordered areas of commerce ever known to man, the only one that might be more regulated is banking.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It's even more regulated than the internet, for Christ sake.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
Enough said?

I'm a fiscal moderate. I feel that the free market should always be the first choice, and only when it is OBVIOUSLY not working, should we look elsewhere.

It is OBVIOUSLY not working. Next step, Private-Public cooperative.
Click to expand...
What the fuck is this bullshit? Medicare, Medicaid, state and city run/funded health clinics, HMO Act of the 70's, Patients Rights Act of the 90's and on and on.
We ALREADY have a public/private hybrid and the more public it has got with regulation and funding, the WORSE both service and cost have gotten.
So what does the left LYINGLY do, blame the "free market".

"When democratic governments create economic calamity, free markets get the blame." – Jack Kemp
 
TheDanold said:
What the fuck is this bullshit? Medicare, Medicaid, state and city run/funded health clinics, HMO Act of the 70's, Patients Rights Act of the 90's and on and on.
We ALREADY have a public/private hybrid and the more public it has got with regulation and funding, the WORSE both service and cost have gotten.
So what does the left LYINGLY do, blame the "free market".

"When democratic governments create economic calamity, free markets get the blame." – Jack Kemp
Click to expand...

OMGZ who's confusing corporatism with national healthcare?

We already have a model for national healthcare in other and over the years we've drifted further away, not towards, that, into a coporatist model. Otherwise, clearly, since people in nationalized healthcare coutnries have such lower costs, our healthcare costs would have gone down.
 
Last edited:
crysis-render-black-guy.jpg
 
Watermark said:
OMGZ who's confusing corporatism with national healthcare?

We already have a model for national healthcare in other and over the years we've drifted further away, not towards, that, into a coporatist model. Otherwise, clearly, since people in nationalized healthcare coutnries have such lower costs, our healthcare costs would have gone down.
Click to expand...

Bullshit, what model, WTF are you talking about? We had next to no government in healthcare in the 50's and since then have moved from individuals paying for care to more corporations paying for care (instead of just paying people extra salary). That isn't good, but it has nothing to do with national healthcare.

Healthcare costs in nationalized healthcare countries have been soaring, meanwhile service has gone downhill:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0828/p01s04-wogi.html
luckily they don't have to deal anywhere near as much as we do with lawsuits as it is very hard to sue the government or they'd be in much worse shit.

Now you're going to cherrypick and say: "Oh but Dano what about the French system, it's not as bad as Canada's." Well one huge issue socialized healthcare nations face is that because they regulate doctor's and nurses pay to be lower than free market rates, the best and brightest leave elsewhere to get more money. They can do that in Canada where they speak English and can move to the US or other choice locations.
Where are french doctors supposed to move if they are dissatisfied with the pay rates FORCED on them by their government? Senegal? Haiti? Not exactly a lot of choice countries where they can go and speak their native tongue.
(Which highlights a big reason why Socialism in general is not as bad in nations with less spoken languages.)

Look this is fucking nuts ok? Ask any doctor, and I mean any doctor in practice why healthcare costs have climbed so much and it is because their Malpractice Insurance Rates are skyrocketing. Why is that? Because of the ease of suing and size of judgements that the so-called Patients Rights Act imposed on them with a de facto stopping of cheaper care that can be much easier sued.
Not only the judgements health industry companies/people pay for but also the defence, the paperwork to try and avoid lawsuits, the complexity of waivers and the paying for ads to counter an image that they are under attack on.

Solve the problem by repealing the regulations, let the free market truly freely stand on it's own and THEN if it gets worse, THEN propose your nationalization and feel at least honest in saying the free market is failing.
But it won't happen...
 
Diuretic said:
If healthcare costs are going up, what are the pressures driving up those costs? Anyone got a clue?
Click to expand...

More technological advances from capitalism, aging population and unfortunately over here, increasing regulation, lawsuits and consequentially malpractice insurance rates.
 
TheDanold said:
More technological advances from capitalism, aging population and unfortunately over here, increasing regulation, lawsuits and consequentially malpractice insurance rates.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reponse - my untutored view is those make sense.
 
TheDanold said:
Bullshit, what model, WTF are you talking about? We had next to no government in healthcare in the 50's and since then have moved from individuals paying for care to more corporations paying for care (instead of just paying people extra salary). That isn't good, but it has nothing to do with national healthcare.

Healthcare costs in nationalized healthcare countries have been soaring, meanwhile service has gone downhill:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0828/p01s04-wogi.html
luckily they don't have to deal anywhere near as much as we do with lawsuits as it is very hard to sue the government or they'd be in much worse shit.

Now you're going to cherrypick and say: "Oh but Dano what about the French system, it's not as bad as Canada's." Well one huge issue socialized healthcare nations face is that because they regulate doctor's and nurses pay to be lower than free market rates, the best and brightest leave elsewhere to get more money. They can do that in Canada where they speak English and can move to the US or other choice locations.
Where are french doctors supposed to move if they are dissatisfied with the pay rates FORCED on them by their government? Senegal? Haiti? Not exactly a lot of choice countries where they can go and speak their native tongue.
(Which highlights a big reason why Socialism in general is not as bad in nations with less spoken languages.)

Look this is fucking nuts ok? Ask any doctor, and I mean any doctor in practice why healthcare costs have climbed so much and it is because their Malpractice Insurance Rates are skyrocketing. Why is that? Because of the ease of suing and size of judgements that the so-called Patients Rights Act imposed on them with a de facto stopping of cheaper care that can be much easier sued.
Not only the judgements health industry companies/people pay for but also the defence, the paperwork to try and avoid lawsuits, the complexity of waivers and the paying for ads to counter an image that they are under attack on.

Solve the problem by repealing the regulations, let the free market truly freely stand on it's own and THEN if it gets worse, THEN propose your nationalization and feel at least honest in saying the free market is failing.
But it won't happen...
Click to expand...

Costs have been soaring?


Gee, what country does that remind me of? Except it's a lot worse for them?
 
Waterboardedmark said:
Healthcare market - medicaid - medicare - patients rights act - hmo act - (all other government healthcare regulations * n) = HOLY SHIT things are actually better again!!!!!

The logic of a right-winger.
Click to expand...
Here let me help you with your equation, you seem to suck bad at math...or is that history? How bout we just leave it at "you suck"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top