Help with my pump....!
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Where is the pump in the system (vertically as well as horizontally)? Unless its in the water it must be a self-priming pump, which means that it can pump air for a little while until it lifts the water into itself.
The Pump is above the well and off to the side about three feet. It is a self priming pump, but you have to put water into it the first time. I belive Ive done it correctly but its not working.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
How far above the water level is the pump? Do you have a foot valve installed? When you fill the pump does water flow back down to the well?
The water seems to stay in the pump or go out to the sprinklers but I do not belive its going back into the well.
I suspect that the foot valve is installed. The well worked perfectly until the pump stoped working, Ive replaced the pump and cant get the water to flow...
any suggestions are appreciated... thank you!
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
How far above the water level is the pump?
about 12 feet.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
That's really pushing it for a pump, especially a self-primer. I suspect that this is not actually self-priming, but manual priming. When you lift water to a certain height under a vacuum it can start to vaporize at room temperature, depending on the design of the pump, friction losses in the suction lines, temperature of the water, etc. 14 or 15' is a practical maximum, and for that everything has to be nearly perfect.
You said that the water you pour into the pump appears to be moving downstream into the sprinklers. There should be a check valve on the discharge of the pump to prevent this. If not, the pump won't be fully filled with water when you turn it on, and it can't generate enough lift to start the water moving.
There should also be an isolation valve downstream of the check valve so you can keep the pump full while it starts. If not install one. If installed then close it, fill the pump, start it then gradually open the valve.
I suspect what may have happened is that the water table in the area has gradually dropped, causing the old pump to lose its prime then it burned itself out.
Or the foot valve may be not opening all the way. This would cause additional friction losses in the suction line, and the water vaporizes before it can get to the pump.
Did you replace the pump with the same make, model and power rating? a more powerful pump will be more likely to give you a problem.
A better installation would be a submersible pump. These are multi-stage turbine pumps, shaped like a long cylinder about 3-1/2" or 5-1/2" in diameter with the motor on top, pump on the bottom and the water passes around the motor to a vertical discharge pipe. The hole thing hangs off the discharge pipe and drops down into either a 4 or 6" well casing, and sits a few feet off the bottom of the well completely submerged in the water. This does away with a foot valve and priming problems. The electrical feed is usually strapped to the discharge pipe, and you have a "pit-less adapter" that holds the pipe and keeps the pump in the proper vertical position.
Here's what they look like:
You said that the water you pour into the pump appears to be moving downstream into the sprinklers. There should be a check valve on the discharge of the pump to prevent this. If not, the pump won't be fully filled with water when you turn it on, and it can't generate enough lift to start the water moving.
There should also be an isolation valve downstream of the check valve so you can keep the pump full while it starts. If not install one. If installed then close it, fill the pump, start it then gradually open the valve.
I suspect what may have happened is that the water table in the area has gradually dropped, causing the old pump to lose its prime then it burned itself out.
Or the foot valve may be not opening all the way. This would cause additional friction losses in the suction line, and the water vaporizes before it can get to the pump.
Did you replace the pump with the same make, model and power rating? a more powerful pump will be more likely to give you a problem.
A better installation would be a submersible pump. These are multi-stage turbine pumps, shaped like a long cylinder about 3-1/2" or 5-1/2" in diameter with the motor on top, pump on the bottom and the water passes around the motor to a vertical discharge pipe. The hole thing hangs off the discharge pipe and drops down into either a 4 or 6" well casing, and sits a few feet off the bottom of the well completely submerged in the water. This does away with a foot valve and priming problems. The electrical feed is usually strapped to the discharge pipe, and you have a "pit-less adapter" that holds the pipe and keeps the pump in the proper vertical position.
Here's what they look like:
That's really pushing it for a pump, especially a self-primer. I suspect that this is not actually self-priming, but manual priming. When you lift water to a certain height under a vacuum it can start to vaporize at room temperature, depending on the design of the pump, friction losses in the suction lines, temperature of the water, etc. 14 or 15' is a practical maximum, and for that everything has to be nearly perfect.
You said that the water you pour into the pump appears to be moving downstream into the sprinklers. There should be a check valve on the discharge of the pump to prevent this. If not, the pump won't be fully filled with water when you turn it on, and it can't generate enough lift to start the water moving.
There should also be an isolation valve downstream of the check valve so you can keep the pump full while it starts. If not install one. If installed then close it, fill the pump, start it then gradually open the valve.
I suspect what may have happened is that the water table in the area has gradually dropped, causing the old pump to lose its prime then it burned itself out.
Or the foot valve may be not opening all the way. This would cause additional friction losses in the suction line, and the water vaporizes before it can get to the pump.
Did you replace the pump with the same make, model and power rating? a more powerful pump will be more likely to give you a problem.
A better installation would be a submersible pump. These are multi-stage turbine pumps, shaped like a long cylinder about 3-1/2" or 5-1/2" in diameter with the motor on top, pump on the bottom and the water passes around the motor to a vertical discharge pipe. The hole thing hangs off the discharge pipe and drops down into either a 4 or 6" well casing, and sits a few feet off the bottom of the well completely submerged in the water. This does away with a foot valve and priming problems. The electrical feed is usually strapped to the discharge pipe, and you have a "pit-less adapter" that holds the pipe and keeps the pump in the proper vertical position.
Here's what they look like:
I replaced it with the exact same pump, just 42 years newer. Both 2 HP. The old pump worked fine until it died, I like the idea that what killed the old pump was the loss of prime due to droping water levels, I had that theory also because of the new golf corse in my back yard. However, I live 1/2 a mile from the ocean and someone told me that I would merely get salt water and not a droping water level.
Others have suggested I install an new check valve. I assume the old one is underground. If the old one is not functuning, would it hurt to not replace it, but merely install a new one above ground? That would be a lot cheaper and easier for me.
How much would you guess it would cost me to have a submersable pump like you described installed?
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me. I am sort of lost on this issue and do not want to pay some "expert" with a financial interest to give me advice.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
The golf course could affect the water level and likely has since they cut trees and dig ponds, then pump from the ponds for irrigation. It sounds like your aquifer is all sand, fairly shallow. I suspect its not great drinking water but OK for everything else.
You'll never get a salt water intrusion since you're 1/2 mile from the ocean. Unless you're running a municipal scale well, which you ain't.
The call it a foot valve because its on the very bottom of the pipe down the well and that's where it needs to be. Leaving it in and putting a second check valve above ground would just make the suction problem worse. I suspect due to its age you've got some corrosion and shit that's blocking the flow. That plus the lowered water level and you're done.
There's only so much diagnosis that can be done without physical investigation, dis-assembly of the old plumbing and possibly a down-hole camera. And trial-and-error by an amateur is expensive (the new pump you bought can't be returned). You're best bet is to educate yourself as best you can then hire a local plumber specializing in well pumps. You should talk to some of your neighbors who have wells and see who they may recommend. A good professional will come up with your least expensive solution. You never know he may find some part that needs to be replaced and it costs you very little.
The submersible pump that I showed you retails for about $800 and that's about the size that you need. But it's designed for a certain type of well and you may have something completely different. A pro might choose a jet pump or other type. Each type needs its own starter panel and electrical connections, adding more costs.
I can see a job like this costing you $2000 or so, but could be a lot less. That probably sounds like a lot of dough but for 42 years worth of water it's cheap.