Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Send the Ohio State Buckeyes there. Tyrelle Pryor would certainly overthrow the Taliban.
How to win the war in Afghanistan
- Thread starter Mott the Hoople
- Start date
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Who are we fighting in Afghanistan ... and why?
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Where did the Taliban attack you?
Lowaicue
英語在香港
No they did not. The Taliban have not attacked America nor have they attacked Americans outside Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You are confusing them with what your idiot president christened Al Quaeda. Quite different.
Now then, who are we fighting in Afghanistan and why?
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
My mistake. I apologize for the confusion on my part. Replace my previous answers with Al Quaeda.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Thank you for being a gentleman.
But my question remains. Who are we fighting and why? AQ appear to be in disarray and holed up in the mountainous tribal lands of Pakistan.
We are not fighting Afghanistan, the nation, and we are not fighting Pakistan, the nation.
If the Taliban, who are indiginous Afghans and Pakistanis for the most part, are fighting for an Islamic state then it would seem to me that it is a local dispute and that we must have ulterior motives for being in their country. Dont get me wrong, I would as soon shoot them all as not! but we are being led by our noses into a conflict for which the original aim, to 'get' Osama bin Laden, seems to have been lost in the dust clouds of politics.
You confusion is a common one and you will notice that neither your government nor ours make a play of correcting that confusion. It suits them for us to have a bogeyman. While we are watching that we are missing the magic!
Cancel 2018. 3
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the taliban gave protection to a group that declared war on america, not only with words, but vis a vis 9/11.....and other overt acts resulting in deaths of americans....
imagine if you harbor a sniper in your apartment, you know he is a sniper, he kills people from the awesome vantage point your sweet apartment has....and when the police come to get the sniper, you tell them, no, stay out of my apartment, i'm not the sniper....
imagine if you harbor a sniper in your apartment, you know he is a sniper, he kills people from the awesome vantage point your sweet apartment has....and when the police come to get the sniper, you tell them, no, stay out of my apartment, i'm not the sniper....
Lowaicue
英語在香港
ALL terrorist groups are hidden or shielded by someone. That's because NO terrorist groups are universally seen as terrorists.
The fact is that the US, UK et al are in Afghanistan under false pretences. If more people want to live in a Taliban controlled country than dont its up to them. If more people in America want the Republicans to control their country than it is for America to sort out, not the UK.
The Taliban want a fundemental Islamic state. Simple as that. And they will kill to get it. Mostly they will kill their fellow countrymen (see Pakistan this week) but if we get in the way they will kill us.
I would advocate more troops to go after the remnants of Al Qaeda then a swift withdrawal and leave the corruption of all sides to sort itself out.
It aint our bloody problem.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
For once you and I are in agreement.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
the taliban gave them protection, land they turned into training camps....no, no other country hides or shield's terrorists like that....in fact, they didn't even hide them, AQ was out in the open, so i have no idea where you get your notions from....
AQ was probably, if not, the military arm of the taliban
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Sorry, I cannot compete with your willful ignorance. You think what you like and those of us better informed will just hope you dont breed.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Had your prejudices taken more of a back seat you might have seen agreement before now.
No, they just harbored and supported al Qaeda.
If I willingly gave support to somebody who attacked your family it would be a crime. If somebody died because of that felony it would be murder, even if I never touched a weapon.
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
I prefer to see it as a difference of lifestyle and opinion.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
You are 'assuming'. Just as we 'assume' the remnants of AQ are in Wadjiristan and we 'assume' the Pakistani forces are going after them. But, of course, they are going after them for a completely different reason.
Are you going to seek out and attack those that harboured your own home grown terrorists? Where do you stop? The guy who served them petrol? The guy who sold them food?
It all gets just a tad stupid.
The taliban have not and will not attack American soil. They do not pose a danger to America. they pose a danger to people who they see as standing in the way of a fundementalist Islamic state.
You should be directing your ire and mistrust at those that encourage you to believe the Taliban are your bogeymen. You are being manipulated just as you were when you invaded Iraq. Just as you were in Vietnam. Just as you were when you were told that Iran and N Korea constitute an axis of evil.
Jeeze Louise how are you so gullible?
Do you think the rest of the world shares your fears? Do you know there IS a 'rest of the world'?
I will repeat that I would gladly shoot every last one of the Taliban BUT that is not a decision that in anyway shape or form could be based on logic nor could it be a reason to treat them as a genuine enemy. (Except, that is, in their own country.)
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Just one more question.
Are we fighting Afghanistan, Pakistan, Al Qaeda or the Taliban? What is the difference? Are Afghans taliban? Are some taliban Pakistanis? Are some AQ Taliban? Do we really know and understand who it is that we are out their killing and do we honestly understand why?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Neither is your argument a logical one. To argue that the Taliban, post 911 did not present a clear and present danger to US national security, by harboring Al Qaeda, is an asinine argument and flies in the face of the facts. Nor is the fact that Bush fucked the US mission there up and now it's legitimacy is questionable relevant to that fact. The fact is, and you just dont' seem to be able to think this through, is that when Al Qaeda was correctly identified as the culprits for the 911 attacks and the Taliban regime harbored them and failed to comply with the US ultimatum to turn over those responsible (i.e. bin Ladin at el) then that was an ACT OF WAR against the USA and we had every right under international and domestic law to protect our national security.
To argue other wise just demonstrates both a willful and profound ignorance of both national security and foreign policy.
By the way, you also seem to fail to grasp that it's not the Taliban, per se, that's a clear and present danger to the USA but rather what it represented, a failed nation state that would allows the congregation of violent Islamic extremist groups that represents the threat.
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Lowaicue
英語在香港
Al Quaeda did not exist as an organised threat to the USA prior to the attack on New York. I thought that fact was well known on both sides of the channel.
The fact that the Taleban harboured AQ immediately after 11/9 may well be true but their mission is NOT to attack US soil or any other soil. It is to take over Afghanistan and, I would guess Pakistan also. You may say it was regarded as an act of war against your country but your country represents but a tiny minority of the world's population. You are NOT the freakin' world.
The Taleban present no 'clear and present danger' to you and, whilst being rather a nasty 'nation' of extremists, they confine that extremism to the lands they consider to be theirs.
Afghanistan has been a failed state since before the Russians went in. The Taliban were born out of the Soviet Afghan conflict. They are the product, not the cause.
Now if the ambitions of these people change in the future to thoughts of actually attacking the west then, yes, lets bomb them to smithereens. But now - they dont.
I fail to understand why it is that, despite the 'comparative' sanity of the rest of the world vis a vis the Afghan/Pakistan problems, Iran, N Korea etc etc America alone (and to some extent the UK in their poodling) continues to see them as a major threat to personal safety.
They really are not. Much of the strutting and posturing is as a result of the PERCIEVED American threat. If you put a dog into a corner it will bite you. Is that the dog's fault?
300 million otherwise good souls seem unable to grasp the fact that their government encourages, or does nothing to stop, incorrect information to further strengthen its internal defence against the truth being exposed.
If you take off your boots and lay down your guns many of these people would suddenly become almost acceptable. Little people dont like big people showing their strength just because they can.
This is not intended as an anti yank tirade. But, for chrissakes, someone has to show you the truth. It appears well hidden within your own borders.
In my lifetime America has hated the Chinese, the Vietnamese, the Soviets, The Palestinians, The North Koreans, The Iraquis, The Iranians. NONE OF THEM HAS EVER INVADED YOUR COUNTRY.
I went to Germany 10 years after WWII. 10 years after we had bombed each other half out of existence. We harboured no deep seated hatred. (Some did, its true, but not the ordinary Joe). They didnt hate us either. Why must you continue to hate so much? Do you remember Doc in the drug store in West Side Story? What he said to the Sharks is still true today but for many more Americans than a small NY gang.