I see what the Dems are saying about Obama...

TheDanold

TheDanold

Unimatrix
A lot of Dems say Obama lacks the experience to be prez, I guess now I'd have to agree. He says he needs tax increases and will push for much higher Social Security taxes off your check that you earn.
Usually the more experienced Democrats are, the more they know they have to lie and wait until they are ELECTED before surprising people with tax increases. Poor newbie Obama, I mean geez this stuff is basic Liberal Democrat knowledge.

"Democrat Barack Obama said Sunday he will push for higher Social Security taxes if elected, viewing it as the best option "
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/11/obama-i-deserve-a-tax-increase/
 
But during an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Obama said taxing more of a person's income was the option he would push for if elected president. He objected to benefit cuts or a higher retirement age.

"I think the best way to approach this is to adjust the cap on the payroll tax so that people like myself are paying a little bit more and people who are in need are protected," the Illinois senator said.

"That is the option that I will be pushing forward." Currently, only the first $97,500 of a person's annual income is taxed. That cap is scheduled to rise to $102,000 next year.

Obama's proposal could include a gap or "doughnut hole" to shield middle-income earners from higher payroll taxes, he said.
 
Here's your problem:

You can't get away with twisting things anymore. Most people aren't going to object to this, the people spoke: do not mess with SS.

And this will ensure it's not messed with. Today, you have a strong progressive movement, including high-profile blogs and you and the media and corporate america are going to find it's just that much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes by screaming "tax raise, tax raise tax raise"
 
Darla said:
Here's your problem:

You can't get away with twisting things anymore. Most people aren't going to object to this, the people spoke: do not mess with SS.

And this will ensure it's not messed with. Today, you have a strong progressive movement, including high-profile blogs and you and the media and corporate america are going to find it's just that much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes by screaming "tax raise, tax raise tax raise"
Click to expand...

I don't have to scream tax increase, Obama is SAYING tax increase, that's the whole point of the thread Senorita Slowness.

People may not want to do anything with SS, but without any changes SS will go bankrupt, so do we solve that with yet more tax increases or some combination of raising the benefit receiving age and/or lowering the benefit payouts and/or letting people establish private accounts so they can save their own money as they are far better than a nanny government with a shitty record at doing it anyway.
Americans prefer all of those options to tax increases.
 
TheDanold said:
I don't have to scream tax increase, Obama is SAYING tax increase, that's the whole point of the thread Senorita Slowness.

People may not want to do anything with SS, but without any changes SS will go bankrupt, so do we solve that with yet more tax increases or some combination of raising the benefit receiving age and/or lowering the benefit payouts and/or letting people establish private accounts so they can save their own money as they are far better than a nanny government with a shitty record at doing it anyway.
Americans prefer all of those options to tax increases.
Click to expand...


Well let's see. Cut benefits or raise taxes on the rich?

If he's very smart he puts a hole in there, freezing the cap at 97k and only raising it once you reach either 150 or 200, they'll have to run the numbers on that.

And that's not a "tax raise" too many give a crap about because people care about what effects them, not what effects you. You guys have thrived on that human flaw for many years and now it's going to save SS.

The majority don't want their benefits cut and Obama looks like he is talking about a plan wherein the majority won't have a tax raise.

That's called having your cake and eating it too and people are going to love it. Sorry, you'll have to attempt to dismantle the new deal by attacking it in some other place. SS is off limits to you guys. The people have spoken
 
Darla said:
Well let's see. Cut benefits or raise taxes on the rich?

If he's very smart he puts a hole in there, freezing the cap at 97k and only raising it once you reach either 150 or 200, they'll have to run the numbers on that.

And that's not a "tax raise" too many give a crap about because people care about what effects them, not what effects you. You guys have thrived on that human flaw for many years and now it's going to save SS.

The majority don't want their benefits cut and Obama looks like he is talking about a plan wherein the majority won't have a tax raise.

That's called having your cake and eating it too and people are going to love it. Sorry, you'll have to attempt to dismantle the new deal by attacking it in some other place. SS is off limits to you guys. The people have spoken
Click to expand...
No that's called social welfarism, sure there are some weak, theiving people who like to steal from others but most Americans are decent, hardworking people who believe more in taking care of themselves. Sorry Darlalaling this isn't Europe, people here still believe in self-responsibility.

And all this assumes that Obama and Dems will just increase taxes there, history shows otherwise.


How about instead of dismantling SS, we simply give people choice and let them choose whether they want to keep paying money into SS or they can choose to pay money into private savings accounts and take care of their own retirement.
Again given SS shitty record of return, it won't be Republicans 'dismantling' SS that causes it's decline, it will be free people, freely opting for a much better choice.
 
TheDanold said:
No that's called social welfarism, sure there are some weak, theiving people who like to steal from others but most Americans are decent, hardworking people who believe more in taking care of themselves. Sorry Darlalaling this isn't Europe, people here still believe in self-responsibility.

And all this assumes that Obama and Dems will just increase taxes there, history shows otherwise.


How about instead of dismantling SS, we simply give people choice and let them choose whether they want to keep paying money into SS or they can choose to pay money into private savings accounts and take care of their own retirement.
Again given SS shitty record of return, it won't be Republicans 'dismantling' SS that causes it's decline, it will be free people, freely opting for a much better choice.
Click to expand...


Great! So you're going to try privatizing it again?

Excellent. Look, I know the deck is stacked for dems in 08 already, but I am a big believer in the Powell Doctrine of going in with overwhelming odds. I'm not going to turn down any favors you want to do us Dano.

Go for it.
 
The sky is falling, the sky is falling ..

The lemmings have gone to the "I'm ascared of taxes well" too often and the right-wing hardly speaks for what the people believe. Thanks to the total failure of right-wing ideology, Americans now understand there is responsibilty in taxation and want some services and safety-nets guaranteed even if it means raising their taxes.

Obama's plan sounds like a good course to explore.
 
Which candidates - on either the Dem or GOP side - are pushing for a higher retirement age, or benefit cuts?

Or are they just avoiding the issue altogether?
 
Obama is doing a good thing by raising the issue. Not for him, but... SS is not likely to be touched in this campaign otherwise.
 
Onceler said:
Which candidates - on either the Dem or GOP side - are pushing for a higher retirement age, or benefit cuts?

Or are they just avoiding the issue altogether?
Click to expand...
I know Fred Thompson's plan is to increase the age of receiving benefits and to allow private accounts.

Ron Paul has the best plan though:

"In Congress, I have introduced the Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act (H.R. 191), which repeals ALL taxes on Social Security benefits, to eliminate political theft of our seniors’ income and raise their standard of living.

Solvency is the key to keeping our promise to our seniors, and I have introduced the Social Security Preservation Act (H.R. 219) to ensure that money paid into the system is only used for Social Security.

It is fundamentally unfair to give benefits to anyone who has not paid into the system. The Social Security for Americans Only Act (H.R. 190) ends the drain on Social Security caused by illegal aliens seeking the fruits of your labor.

We must also address the desire of younger workers to save and invest on their own. We should cut payroll taxes and give workers the opportunity to seek better returns in the private market.

Excessive government spending has created the insolvency crisis in Social Security. We must significantly reduce spending so that our nation can keep its promise to our seniors. "
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/social-security/
 
Cut off at 100K.. restarts at 200K.. small business takes less of a hit.

This will also allow you to lower retirement collecting age back down and lower rate a little. tax cut for middle class
 
Darla said:
Here's your problem:

You can't get away with twisting things anymore. Most people aren't going to object to this, the people spoke: do not mess with SS.

And this will ensure it's not messed with. Today, you have a strong progressive movement, including high-profile blogs and you and the media and corporate america are going to find it's just that much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes by screaming "tax raise, tax raise tax raise"
Click to expand...
Interesting. This takes away the myth that it is a savings account that people put into, and totally makes it into a welfare system for everybody. I wonder when they'll start suggesting that the richest shouldn't get any of the money they put into the system at all...

And exactly how will this effect the pay schedules afterward as you get more if you pay more, but it wouldn't "fix" it if his plan went into effect if they simply paid out the money to those who have to pay more.

Exactly what is Obama trying to do here?
 
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