I totally kick ass!

CIA TOTALITARIANISM

CIA TOTALITARIANISM

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Seriously. Go read any thread I'm in. I almost always win in a decisive scathing victory, forcing my opponents into the assinine conclusions of their poorly grokked comments, or just overwhelming them with the clarity and logic of my vision. So Cool! Here's to me!:clink:
 
Damocles said:
I just recently re-read that book. Man I love Heinlein..
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Don't worry: there are therapeutic regimens for that now. :p

Here's a true fact for your erudition and amusement. Marion Zimmer Bradley, of all people, truly loved ol' Robert. She thought he was one of the most gallant and likable men she ever met. Go figure.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Don't worry: there are therapeutic regimens for that now. :p

Here's a true fact for your erudition and amusement. Marion Zimmer Bradley, of all people, truly loved ol' Robert. She thought he was one of the most gallant and likable men she ever met. Go figure.
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I like her sci-fi as well.
 
MZB's fiction is quite good... I still want to strangle the people who wrote, produced, and directed "Battleship Troopers". Heinlein must have rolled in his grave.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
MZB's fiction is quite good... I still want to strangle the people who wrote, produced, and directed "Battleship Troopers". Heinlein must have rolled in his grave.
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No kidding. Talk about totally missing the meaning behind the story and making it into total fop...
 
Damocles said:
I like her sci-fi as well.
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She wrote science fiction? She was a wonderful woman whom I loved very much but I don't believe she ever wrote any genuine sci-fi, that I can recall.

:cof1:

BTW: yes, I did know her. I almost became her son-in-law, as a matter of fact. Long story, not worth repeating. She lived in Berkeley for many years and that's where I met here. If you like harp music at all, google "Moira Stern" to see her daughter. The actor Patrick Breen -- Men in Black, Galaxy Quest, etc. ad nauseum -- is her son.
 
Damocles said:
No kidding. Talk about totally missing the meaning behind the story and making it into total fop...
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Oh, Christ on a crutch, I couldn't agree more! Once, I loved Heinlein's work -- mostly when I was about 13 or 14. I grew out of it but retained enough respect for the man to be truly offended -- outraged, even -- when that grotesque movie was released.

I walked out of the theater. I didn't demand my money back since it wasn't the fault of the theater operators but I was genuinely angry at that . . . travesty. I believe Heinlein would have been too.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
She wrote science fiction? She was a wonderful woman whom I loved very much but I don't believe she ever wrote any genuine sci-fi, that I can recall.

:cof1:

BTW: yes, I did know her. I almost became her son-in-law, as a matter of fact. Long story, not worth repeating. She lived in Berkeley for many years and that's where I met here. If you like harp music at all, google "Moira Stern" to see her daughter. The actor Patrick Breen -- Men in Black, Galaxy Quest, etc. ad nauseum -- is her son.
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You don't think Darkover is Sci-fi?
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
MZB's "Darkover" stuff is both Fantasy and Sci-Fi
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There is no "both". Or, rather, if it's science fiction it's also fantasy, but not necessarily the other way 'round.

:cool:

Yeah, I'm being pedantic again. So sue me.

Within the culture, it's collectively called "speculative fiction." That takes in both fantasy and science fiction -- "SF&F" in the lexicon of the marketing weasels. All speculative fiction could be legitimately called "fantasy" but not all fantasy is science fiction.

To make his or her work science fiction, as opposed to fantasy, the author must make a good faith effort to comply with accepted scientific theory as it stands at the time of writing. "Good faith effort" here is actually the best construction possible, I think: the writer isn't responsible for being correct, but, rather, for trying hard not to be wrong.

You don't have quasi-magical, unexplained telepathic people in real science fiction. You can have such in fantasy and, sometimes, it can work out really well. I have no problem with fantasy as such; it's just not science fiction.
 
Damocles said:
You don't think Darkover is Sci-fi?
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[*wincing self-consciously*] No: Dimover is not science fiction. It may be -- *groan* -- "sci-fi" in the Hollywood and TV sense, but it's not science fiction. Which judgment I happen to know would not bother Ms. Bee in the least. She wrote fantasy and was proud of it.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
There is no "both". Or, rather, if it's science fiction it's also fantasy, but not necessarily the other way 'round.

:cool:

Yeah, I'm being pedantic again. So sue me.

Within the culture, it's collectively called "speculative fiction." That takes in both fantasy and science fiction -- "SF&F" in the lexicon of the marketing weasels. All speculative fiction could be legitimately called "fantasy" but not all fantasy is science fiction.

To make his or her work science fiction, as opposed to fantasy, the author must make a good faith effort to comply with accepted scientific theory as it stands at the time of writing. "Good faith effort" here is actually the best construction possible, I think: the writer isn't responsible for being correct, but, rather, for trying hard not to be wrong.

You don't have quasi-magical, unexplained telepathic people in real science fiction. You can have such in fantasy and, sometimes, it can work out really well. I have no problem with fantasy as such; it's just not science fiction.
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Sci-fi is not only such. It must be set in a time with a higher tech level. In this case it was there. The world specifically didn't have "magic" just a different way of reacting to a mind.

In all cases of sci-fi there is some speculation. Such as "Earth" by David Brin where they create a "Grazer" (a Gravity beam) using a black hole created by humans using techniques that are not in reality today's science. He speculates.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
[*wincing self-consciously*] No: Dimover is not science fiction. It may be -- *groan* -- "sci-fi" in the Hollywood and TV sense, but it's not science fiction. Which judgment I happen to know would not bother Ms. Bee in the least. She wrote fantasy and was proud of it.
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I like fantasy as well.

Many books tend to cross over. Setting it as "Fantasy" only is specifically a sci-fi snob's affectation rather than any real set value for sci-fi.

It really doesn't matter to me. I like all of her books that I have read in both realms or all in Fantasy if that is your particular affectation.
 
Anyway, the American Heritage Dictionary defines Science Fiction as follows:
science fiction
n. A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
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Darkover would fall within this definition. I have no objection between separating "pure" and the more "speculative" science fiction as well as "fantasy" but you will find that they are in the same subset at your local bookstore and at the library.
 
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