If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[domer76]

A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor. Did the fire and brimstone shit for decades until he finally came to his senses. For those of you who are in denial or wish to remain willfully ignorant, he basically says this:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gI_OCjTkQG4?si=cyukCFBlj2u2kI4k

 

[gmark77]

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Any religion for that matter.

 

[domer76]

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Any religion for that matter.

That can’t happen. It took thousands of people a couple thousand years to concoct the bullshit we see today.

Even if they were made aware of the concept of the resurrection, Christianity’s keystone, a reasonable mind would reject it outright.

 

[Cypress]

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did.

This pastor needs to go back to divinity school, assuming he ever attended one. Or get a refund if he did.

General revelation is specifically discussed in Romans. It is perfectly clear in the New Testament that general revelation is available to all human beings independent of scripture. People can become aware of God's existence through the order and design of nature and by the moral conscience written on the human mind. Scripture just fills in the details.

 

[Ross Dolan]

A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor.

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Okay...you guys are taking a hit at Christianity and the Abrahamic god...but at least allowing for the possibility of some kind of GOD.

Am I correct about that?

 

[domer76]

Okay...you guys are taking a hit at Christianity and the Abrahamic god...but at least allowing for the possibility of some kind of GOD.

Am I correct about that?

One that has never revealed itself to or interacted with mankind? One that is elsewhere? Spinosa’s god? Einstein’s god?

Have to admit there might be one out there.

 

[domer76]

This pastor needs to go back to divinity school, assuming he ever attended one. Or get a refund if he did.

General revelation is specifically discussed in Romans. It is perfectly clear in the New Testament that general revelation is available to all human beings independent of scripture. People can become aware of God's existence through the order and design of nature and by the moral conscience written on the human mind. Scripture just fills in the details.

You prove his point by you needing scripture to make yours.

 

[Cypress]

You prove his point by you needing scripture to make yours.

No, the point made in Romans is that general revelation is available to everyone independent of scripture.

The fact that humans, long before the New Testament, almost universally perceived a providential origin in the design in nature, and recognized a moral conscience that goes beyond survival of the fittest is proof of this.

 

[Ross Dolan]

One that has never revealed itself to or interacted with mankind? One that is elsewhere? Spinosa’s god? Einstein’s god?

Have to admit there might be one out there.

Yup.

But that was guarded, so I will ask:

Are you allowing for the possibility of a "creator" GOD?

Just the possibility.

 

[domer76]

No, the point made in Romans is that general revelation is available to everyone independent of scripture.

The fact that humans, long before the New Testament, almost universally perceived a providential origin in the design in nature, and recognized a moral conscience that goes beyond survival of the fittest is proof of this.

Romans = “Paul said…” Tell us, how the hell does Paul know?

Yep, the ancients had their gods to try to explain nature. Multiple gods. Sun, moon, storm, wind, war, love. Because of science, we now regard those as myths.

Now that man has whittled their gods down to one, it changes nothing about their mythical nature.

 

[domer76]

Yup.

But that was guarded, so I will ask:

Are you allowing for the possibility of a "creator" GOD?

Just the possibility.

Creator of what, specifically?

You know what “gods” I like? Q from Star Trek, The Next Generation. That kind of “god” I could embrace.

 

[Cypress]

Romans = “Paul said…” Tell us, how the hell does Paul know?

Yep, the ancients had their gods to try to explain nature. Multiple gods. Sun, moon, storm, wind, war, love. Because of science, we now regard those as myths.

Now that man has whittled their gods down to one, it changes nothing about their mythical nature.

So we agree that General Revelation is a real thing, as stated in Romans, and people did not need a book to come to an awareness of a divine providential order and a objective moral law.

It's too bad the pastor in post #1 didn't know that. I doubt he ever went to Divinity school, but if he did he deserves a refund.

 

[domer76]

So we agree that General Revelation is a real thing, as stated in Romans, and people did not need a book to come to an awareness of a divine providential order and a objective moral law.

It's too bad the pastor in post #1 didn't know that. I doubt he ever went to Divinity school, but if he did he deserves a refund.

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I said science has proven that those gods were myth and that people have narrowed it to one, doesn’t change the mythical nature of it. Why do you think it does?

I’ll ask again - How did Paul know? Going to avoid that question.

I’ll get the pastor’s name for you and we’ll see his background.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor. Did the fire and brimstone shit for decades until he finally came to his senses. For those of you who are in denial or wish to remain willfully ignorant, he basically says this:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gI_OCjTkQG4?si=cyukCFBlj2u2kI4k

Everyone knows that in order for something that exists to be used properly there has to be a manual. (book)

The problems with the people following most religions could be fixed if they would just RTFM. (read the f*ing manual.)

 

[Cypress]

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I said science has proven that those gods were myth and that people have narrowed it to one, doesn’t change the mythical nature of it. Why do you think it does?

I’ll ask again - How did Paul know? Going to avoid that question.

The claim you and your pastor seemed to be making is that only a book makes one aware of a god. That's obviously false.

Science doesn't prove anything about religion. There are Nobel Prize winners in physics who practice Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism.

Paul didn't have to know. It's self evident. If you and your pastor read Romans, you'd see that Paul is saying even the pagans are aware of a divine providential order and an objective moral law. It didn't require proof. It's self evident in human nature.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Creator of what, specifically?

Everything. Do you allow for the existence of a GOD or GODS that exist(s) and without which the (what we call) physical world would not exist?

I'm just wondering.

You know what “gods” I like? Q from Star Trek, The Next Generation. That kind of “god” I could embrace.

Interesting. Thank your for sharing that.

 

[domer76]

Everyone knows that in order for something that exists to be used properly there has to be a manual. (book)

The problems with the people following most religions could be fixed if they would just RTFM. (read the f*ing manual.)

Only if the manual makes sense so that one can rely upon it. No contradictions. Everything clear and straightforward. Minimal or no errors. Written by experts.

The Bible meets none of those requirements.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Only if the manual makes sense so that one can rely upon it. No contradictions. Everything clear and straightforward. Minimal or no errors. Written by experts.

The Bible meets none of those requirements.

Telling "christians" to RTFM makes sense since most of them have barely bothered to open it.

 

[Cypress]

Okay...you guys are taking a hit at Christianity and the Abrahamic god...but at least allowing for the possibility of some kind of GOD.

Am I correct about that?

They wouldn't be atheists if they confessed to that.

 

[gmark77]

Romans = “Paul said…” Tell us, how the hell does Paul know?

Yep, the ancients had their gods to try to explain nature. Multiple gods. Sun, moon, storm, wind, war, love. Because of science, we now regard those as myths.

Now that man has whittled their gods down to one, it changes nothing about their mythical nature.

I was a bit flummoxed by Cy's reliance on the argumentum ad populum. I mean the ancients believed in a fuck ton of patently absurd stuff. Why wouldn't they? Just because millennia of humans thought that thunder was god farts doesn't mean that we are required to believe as they did today.