If you REALLY want to thank them for their service!

Taichiliberal

Shaken, not stirred!
Here's the thing: you join the military, you get shot up, you get a apartment or house, medical and assistance finding a job COURTESY OF THE USA. Period. We've had 2 "wars" now based on lies and deceit by politicians and the military/industrial complex. A matter of fact, a matter of history. So I don't want to hear any BS that what I propose can't be done. :|
 
Actually, that all pretty much happens now. You are badly disabled from military service, you get 100% of your base military pay for life. You get medical care via the VA, if not Tricare. You can get free education and training, and not just GI Bill type benefits. The VA will help you get a job, among other veteran's services.
 
Here's the thing: you join the military, you get shot up, you get a apartment or house, medical and assistance finding a job COURTESY OF THE USA. Period. We've had 2 "wars" now based on lies and deceit by politicians and the military/industrial complex. A matter of fact, a matter of history. So I don't want to hear any BS that what I propose can't be done. :|

No argument from me, but Tacky has me on ignore so he doesn't know.
 
Actually, that all pretty much happens now. You are badly disabled from military service, you get 100% of your base military pay for life. You get medical care via the VA, if not Tricare. You can get free education and training, and not just GI Bill type benefits. The VA will help you get a job, among other veteran's services.

the only thing he adds is the free house.....all we do now is VA loans.....
 
Actually, that all pretty much happens now. You are badly disabled from military service, you get 100% of your base military pay for life. You get medical care via the VA, if not Tricare. You can get free education and training, and not just GI Bill type benefits. The VA will help you get a job, among other veteran's services.

I wish that were 100% true, T.A., but:

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/22/1048...ays-the-u-s-failed-some-veterans-for-30-years

https://www.wusf.org/politics-issue...t-benefits-but-legislation-suggests-otherwise
 

Actually, it is true. The head of the VA wants more money and people because that's what bureaucrats do. The number of veterans in the US is in decline, not rising.

rhq-6-1-12-g1.png


I also see a shitload of bullshit surrounding veterans coming from a lot of places. For example, this graph:

Percentage-of-veterans-incarerated-over-time-Note-The-figure-shows-the-percentage-of.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...figure-shows-the-percentage-of_fig1_257206103

That graph is utter nonsense. 66% of veterans don't end up going to jail or prison, nowhere close to that.

Here's another:

11-8-16housing.png


If you go to sites on homelessness and veterans what you almost 100% find is that their surveys of homeless persons have them self-reporting on their status as a veteran. That is, the researcher simply takes the word of the person interviewed that they are a veteran. There is little or no attempt to verify that, and the percentage of homeless that lie is quite high. There are far fewer homeless veterans than virtually all surveys reflect.

What I'm getting at is there are lots of services and help available to veterans right now. Disabled veterans get a ton of benefits and pay. The VA, like any government bureaucracy, wants more money and people to do their job even as the number of people they have to service declines.
 
Actually, it is true. The head of the VA wants more money and people because that's what bureaucrats do. The number of veterans in the US is in decline, not rising.

rhq-6-1-12-g1.png


I also see a shitload of bullshit surrounding veterans coming from a lot of places. For example, this graph:

Percentage-of-veterans-incarerated-over-time-Note-The-figure-shows-the-percentage-of.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...figure-shows-the-percentage-of_fig1_257206103

That graph is utter nonsense. 66% of veterans don't end up going to jail or prison, nowhere close to that.

Here's another:

11-8-16housing.png


If you go to sites on homelessness and veterans what you almost 100% find is that their surveys of homeless persons have them self-reporting on their status as a veteran. That is, the researcher simply takes the word of the person interviewed that they are a veteran. There is little or no attempt to verify that, and the percentage of homeless that lie is quite high. There are far fewer homeless veterans than virtually all surveys reflect.

What I'm getting at is there are lots of services and help available to veterans right now. Disabled veterans get a ton of benefits and pay. The VA, like any government bureaucracy, wants more money and people to do their job even as the number of people they have to service declines.

Yes, but then how do you account for the information in my links? My point is that we need to get rid of the red tape and delays ... especially regarding lawsuits where vets were injured via US military actions (i.e., Agent Orange, Guld War syndrome, DU poisoning).
 
Yes, but then how do you account for the information in my links? My point is that we need to get rid of the red tape and delays ... especially regarding lawsuits where vets were injured via US military actions (i.e., Agent Orange, Guld War syndrome, DU poisoning).

The "red tape" is the product of an ever increasing bureaucracy. As for the issues you mention, I see all three as grossly overwrought, and over blown, and a product of our overly litigious society, as well as from our 'zero tolerance' mentality on safety.

For example, the VA conducted a 30 year study--and it's ongoing today-- of every member of the military that served in Ranch Hand. That is the operation / program that was using, spraying, and delivering, Agent Orange in Vietnam. All of the remaining Ranch Hand C-123's are stored on Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson for research purposes if necessary.
In all of that, the VA found no evidence of increased rates of cancer or other diseases among the unit members...NONE. They were easily the most exposed to Agent Orange and should have had the highest rates of cancer and such from it if that were the case.

https://www.vacsp.research.va.gov/CSPEC/Studies/INVESTD-R/Air-Force-Ranch-Hand-Study.asp

CANCER
· no statistical differences between the Ranch Hand group and
the comparison group for malignant or benign systemic tumors;
· no cases of soft-tissue sarcoma among the Ranch Handers
and one in the comparison group;
· no cases of digestive cancers in the Ranch Hand group;
· significantly more nonmelanotic skin cancer in the Ranch
Hand group; however, no adjustments have been made for sunlight
exposure which is the major cause of these cancers;
· no uncommon cancers or cancers in unusual sites or at an
unusual age among Ranch Handers.

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/docs/agentorange/reviews/ao_newsletter_apr84.pdf

DU poisoning is another bullshit thing. The ONLY way you can be harmed by depleted uranium is to either breath it in as particulates (fine dust) or eat it. That's it. Radium watch painters took years of daily exposure and ingestion to show symptoms from it.

Gulf War syndrome was so poorly defined, that just about anyone with a medical condition could apply for consideration.

The latest fad in this long line of scams is exposure to trichloroethane cleaning solvents. SSDD.

Another largely bullshit one is troops exposed to atomic testing. Again, the amount of exposure they got on average was nothing worth mentioning.

I'm not making light of any of this, but I'm also not buying the automatic 'It's the military's / government's fault for fill in the blank.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Yes, but then how do you account for the information in my links? My point is that we need to get rid of the red tape and delays ... especially regarding lawsuits where vets were injured via US military actions (i.e., Agent Orange, Guld War syndrome, DU poisoning).


The "red tape" is the product of an ever increasing bureaucracy. As for the issues you mention, I see all three as grossly overwrought, and over blown, and a product of our overly litigious society, as well as from our 'zero tolerance' mentality on safety.

For example, the VA conducted a 30 year study--and it's ongoing today-- of every member of the military that served in Ranch Hand. That is the operation / program that was using, spraying, and delivering, Agent Orange in Vietnam. All of the remaining Ranch Hand C-123's are stored on Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson for research purposes if necessary.
In all of that, the VA found no evidence of increased rates of cancer or other diseases among the unit members...NONE. They were easily the most exposed to Agent Orange and should have had the highest rates of cancer and such from it if that were the case.

https://www.vacsp.research.va.gov/CSPEC/Studies/INVESTD-R/Air-Force-Ranch-Hand-Study.asp

CANCER
· no statistical differences between the Ranch Hand group and
the comparison group for malignant or benign systemic tumors;
· no cases of soft-tissue sarcoma among the Ranch Handers
and one in the comparison group;
· no cases of digestive cancers in the Ranch Hand group;
· significantly more nonmelanotic skin cancer in the Ranch
Hand group; however, no adjustments have been made for sunlight
exposure which is the major cause of these cancers;
· no uncommon cancers or cancers in unusual sites or at an
unusual age among Ranch Handers.

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/docs/agentorange/reviews/ao_newsletter_apr84.pdf

DU poisoning is another bullshit thing. The ONLY way you can be harmed by depleted uranium is to either breath it in as particulates (fine dust) or eat it. That's it. Radium watch painters took years of daily exposure and ingestion to show symptoms from it.

Gulf War syndrome was so poorly defined, that just about anyone with a medical condition could apply for consideration.

The latest fad in this long line of scams is exposure to trichloroethane cleaning solvents. SSDD.

Another largely bullshit one is troops exposed to atomic testing. Again, the amount of exposure they got on average was nothing worth mentioning.

I'm not making light of any of this, but I'm also not buying the automatic 'It's the military's / government's fault for fill in the blank.

Sorry, but the VA is hardly the avenue to go to when looking at cases of military abuses of the troops. Please take note, for it's one of the few appointments that Trump got right:

From 2016

Dr. Orange: The Scientist Who Insists Agent Orange Isn’t Hurting America’s Veterans

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/vietnam-war-veterans-herbicides-orange-cancer/

From 2018
The real VA scandal: No will to help veterans

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/374542-the-real-va-scandal-no-will-to-help-veterans/


As for the use of DU shells in Iraq, the only BS surrounding the aftermath is that coming from the military related agencies. But other than that:


From 2013

Depleted Uranium Contamination is Still Spreading in Iraq


https://truthout.org/articles/depleted-uranium-contamination-is-still-spreading-in-iraq/


As for the Gulf War Syndrome

From 2004

Report links vaccines to Gulf war syndrome

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jan/12/health.military


You need to stop being a willfully ignorant toady for what use to be called "the establishment".
 
Sorry, but the VA is hardly the avenue to go to when looking at cases of military abuses of the troops. Please take note, for it's one of the few appointments that Trump got right:

From 2016

Dr. Orange: The Scientist Who Insists Agent Orange Isn’t Hurting America’s Veterans

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/vietnam-war-veterans-herbicides-orange-cancer/

From 2018
The real VA scandal: No will to help veterans

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/374542-the-real-va-scandal-no-will-to-help-veterans/


As for the use of DU shells in Iraq, the only BS surrounding the aftermath is that coming from the military related agencies. But other than that:


From 2013

Depleted Uranium Contamination is Still Spreading in Iraq


https://truthout.org/articles/depleted-uranium-contamination-is-still-spreading-in-iraq/


As for the Gulf War Syndrome

From 2004

Report links vaccines to Gulf war syndrome

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jan/12/health.military


You need to stop being a willfully ignorant toady for what use to be called "the establishment".

Anecdote isn't evidence.

The Plural of Anecdote Is Misinformation
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/.../202011/the-plural-anecdote-is-misinformation

Conclusive or anecdotal? Talking about evidence and proof.
https://dictionaryblog.cambridge.or...r-anecdotal-talking-about-evidence-and-proof/

Anecdotes are not evidence
http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/anecdotes-are-not-evidence/
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Sorry, but the VA is hardly the avenue to go to when looking at cases of military abuses of the troops. Please take note, for it's one of the few appointments that Trump got right:

From 2016

Dr. Orange: The Scientist Who Insists Agent Orange Isn’t Hurting America’s Veterans

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...orange-cancer/

From 2018
The real VA scandal: No will to help veterans

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthca...help-veterans/


As for the use of DU shells in Iraq, the only BS surrounding the aftermath is that coming from the military related agencies. But other than that:


From 2013

Depleted Uranium Contamination is Still Spreading in Iraq


https://truthout.org/articles/deplet...ading-in-iraq/


As for the Gulf War Syndrome

From 2004

Report links vaccines to Gulf war syndrome

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/...ealth.military


You need to stop being a willfully ignorant toady for what use to be called "the establishment".







Anecdote isn't evidence.

The Plural of Anecdote Is Misinformation
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/.../202011/the-plural-anecdote-is-misinformation

Conclusive or anecdotal? Talking about evidence and proof.
https://dictionaryblog.cambridge.or...r-anecdotal-talking-about-evidence-and-proof/

Anecdotes are not evidence
http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/anecdotes-are-not-evidence/

Only a complete MAGA fool would presume that calling information an "anecdote" would automatically invalidate it's authenticity. Here's the basic definition of the word, via Merriam-Webster:

a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident

Note I've underlined the most relevant part for your education. There was NOTHING in the links I provided that was untrue or in error. Your problem is that you strive to ignore/deny any information that logically and factually contradicts your beliefs and the information you reference to substantiate those beliefs.

The information I provided didn't magically disappear in less than a decade. TFB if you don't like it or it's implications. Like it or not, the OP stands as a valid proposal ... especially given the FACT that the GOP pushes to DEFUND the VA (Not the first time, as it was a previous move by the Bush led Congress)



Proposed GOP cuts would slash $30 billion from veterans spending


Thirty million fewer healthcare visits. Fewer staff, increased claims backlog, longer wait times for benefits. Almost a $30 billion shortfall for veterans funding. That’s the uncertainty that awaits America’s veterans, should Congressional Republicans succeed in dramatically slashing federal spending as House Speaker Kevin McCarthy proposed on April 19.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opini...ould-slash-30-billion-from-veterans-spending/


Wake the fuck up, T.A. The people and system you doggedly defend DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU BEYOND HOW FAR THEY CAN USE YOU TO BENEFIT THEM! This goes beyond our 2 Party system regarding guilt ... it's just a matter of degrees and level of implementation.
 
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