I'm For States Rights!

Cancel7

Banned
...if it's about denying black people the right to vote.

Otherwise, not really.

E.P.A. Says 17 States Can’t Set Emission Rules
By JOHN M. BRODER and FELICITY BARRINGER
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency on Wednesday denied California and 16 other states the right to set their own standards for carbon dioxide emissions from automobiles.
The E.P.A. administrator, Stephen L. Johnson, said the proposed California rules were pre-empted by federal authority and made moot by the energy bill signed into law by President Bush on Wednesday. Mr. Johnson said California had failed to make a compelling case that it needed authority to write its own standards for greenhouse gas emissions from cars and trucks to help curb global warming.
The decision immediately provoked a heated debate over its scientific basis and whether political pressure was applied by the automobile industry to help it escape the proposed California regulations. Officials from the states and numerous environmental groups vowed to sue to overturn the edict.
In an evening conference call with reporters, Mr. Johnson defended his agency’s decision.
“The Bush administration is moving forward with a clear national solution, not a confusing patchwork of state rules,” he said. “I believe this is a better approach than if individual states were to act alone.”
The 17 states — including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut — had waited two years for the Bush administration to issue a ruling on an application to set stricter air quality standards than those adopted by the federal government. The decision, technically known as a Clean Air Act waiver, was the first time California was refused permission to impose its own pollution rules; the federal government had previously granted the state more than 50 waivers.
The emissions standards California proposed in 2004 — but never approved by the federal government — would have forced automakers to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent in new cars and light trucks by 2016, with the cutbacks to begin in 2009 models.
That would have translated into roughly 43 miles per gallon for cars and some light trucks and about 27 miles per gallon for heavier trucks and sport utility vehicles.
The new federal law will require automakers to meet a 35-mile-per-gallon fleetwide standard for cars and trucks sold in the United States by 2020. It does not address carbon dioxide emissions, but such emissions would be reduced as cars were forced to become more fuel efficient.
California’s proposed rules had sought to address the impact of carbon dioxide and other pollutants from cars and trucks that scientists say contribute to the warming of the planet.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California said the states would go to federal court to reverse the E.P.A. decision.
“It is disappointing that the federal government is standing in our way and ignoring the will of tens of millions of people across the nation,” Mr. Schwarzenegger said. “We will continue to fight this battle.”
He added, “California sued to compel the agency to act on our waiver, and now we will sue to overturn today’s decision and allow Californians to protect our environment.”
Twelve other states — New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington — had proposed standards like California’s, and the governors of Arizona, Colorado, Florida and Utah said they would do the same.
If the waiver had been granted and the 16 other states had adopted the California standard, it would have covered at least half of all vehicles sold in the United States.
Automakers praised the decision. “We commend E.P.A. for protecting a national, 50-state program,” said David McCurdy, president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. “Enhancing energy security and improving fuel economy are priorities to all automakers, but a patchwork quilt of inconsistent and competing fuel economy programs at the state level would only have created confusion, inefficiency and uncertainty for automakers and consumers.”
Industry analysts and environmental groups said the E.P.A. decision had the appearance of a reward to the industry, in return for dropping its opposition to the energy legislation. Auto industry leaders issued statements supporting the new energy law, which gives them more time to improve fuel economy than California would have.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/washington/20epa.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
 
I've always said that that EPA is one of the Federal Programs that need to stay that way because a state that pollutes, also pollutes the state beside it. However, I think if a state wants to have higher standards than what the Federal EPA demands, its all good. It's gonna be ten years before I can get one of those Chevy Volts at a decent price...
 
I've always said that that EPA is one of the Federal Programs that need to stay that way because a state that pollutes, also pollutes the state beside it. However, I think if a state wants to have higher standards than what the Federal EPA demands, its all good. It's gonna be ten years before I can get one of those Chevy Volts at a decent price...

I think the states are going to win in court, but that the feds are going to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court and thanks to bush voters who gave us a Supreme court run by right wing freakoids who most of us would cross the street to get away from, the states will eventually lose this decision.

It will take a Democratic administration, with a new EPA team, to reverse this decision and allow the states to institute higher controls.

But, there’s no difference between the two parties, and it doesn’t matter who wins, I’m voting for Ron paul. ;)
 
I'd prefer to let the states handle it, but.... Constitutionally the EPA has a case. This IS an issue of interstate commerce. That's how the left justified the EPA in the first place. If they have no power to regulate interstate commerce then they cannot set minimums or maximums.
 
I'd prefer to let the states handle it, but.... Constitutionally the EPA has a case. This IS an issue of interstate commerce. That's how the left justified the EPA in the first place. If they have no power to regulate interstate commerce then they cannot set minimums or maximums.


I don't think you understand how environmental policy works. State are, and always have been, free to make their own environmental standards - whether it be air quality, water quality, etc. All the USEPA does is mandate a minimum national baseline standard. States have always been free to adopt their own environmental standards, as long as they are functionally equivalent to, or stricter than the national minimum baseline.
 
I don't think you understand how environmental policy works. State are, and always have been, free to make their own environmental standards - whether it be air quality, water quality, etc. All the USEPA does is mandate a minimum national baseline standard. States have always been free to adopt their own environmental standards, as long as they are functionally equivalent to, or stricter than the national minimum baseline.

Under what constitutional authority does the EPA set minimums? Answer, power to regulate interstate commerce. Hell, they claim authority on water quality and other intrastate issues.

Automobiles are interstate commerce (other than ones manufactured and sold in California) and the state have no power to regulate them.

If the EPA has a power to regulate minimums they have a power to set maximums as well.
 
Under what constitutional authority does the EPA set minimums? Answer, power to regulate interstate commerce. Hell, they claim authority on water quality and other intrastate issues.

Automobiles are interstate commerce (other than ones manufactured and sold in California) and the state have no power to regulate them.

If the EPA has a power to regulate minimums they have a power to set maximums as well.



Automobiles are interstate commerce (other than ones manufactured and sold in California) and the state have no power to regulate them.



What are you talking about? California, for decades, has had its own state tailpipe emissions standards, because of our problems with pollution. You can't buy a car in california, that doesn't have certain emission technologies not found in many other states.
 
The article states the EPA has previously granted waivers. So the state did it under the authority of the EPA.
 
California might be able to regulate vehicles that are registered in California, but they cannot regulate vehicles merely traveling through California, unless the Federal Governemtn chooses to let them.
 
California might be able to regulate vehicles that are registered in California, but they cannot regulate vehicles merely traveling through California, unless the Federal Governemtn chooses to let them.

Of course. Obviously. that goes without saying. The state of california can't madate regulation of a car of an ohio resident, who's traveling through california. LOL
 
...if it's about denying black people the right to vote.

Otherwise, not really.

E.P.A. Says 17 States Can’t Set Emission Rules
By JOHN M. BRODER and FELICITY BARRINGER
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency on Wednesday denied California and 16 other states the right to set their own standards for carbon dioxide emissions from automobiles.
The E.P.A. administrator, Stephen L. Johnson, said the proposed California rules were pre-empted by federal authority and made moot by the energy bill signed into law by President Bush on Wednesday. Mr. Johnson said California had failed to make a compelling case that it needed authority to write its own standards for greenhouse gas emissions from cars and trucks to help curb global warming.
The decision immediately provoked a heated debate over its scientific basis and whether political pressure was applied by the automobile industry to help it escape the proposed California regulations. Officials from the states and numerous environmental groups vowed to sue to overturn the edict.
In an evening conference call with reporters, Mr. Johnson defended his agency’s decision.
“The Bush administration is moving forward with a clear national solution, not a confusing patchwork of state rules,” he said. “I believe this is a better approach than if individual states were to act alone.”
The 17 states — including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut — had waited two years for the Bush administration to issue a ruling on an application to set stricter air quality standards than those adopted by the federal government. The decision, technically known as a Clean Air Act waiver, was the first time California was refused permission to impose its own pollution rules; the federal government had previously granted the state more than 50 waivers.
The emissions standards California proposed in 2004 — but never approved by the federal government — would have forced automakers to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent in new cars and light trucks by 2016, with the cutbacks to begin in 2009 models.
That would have translated into roughly 43 miles per gallon for cars and some light trucks and about 27 miles per gallon for heavier trucks and sport utility vehicles.
The new federal law will require automakers to meet a 35-mile-per-gallon fleetwide standard for cars and trucks sold in the United States by 2020. It does not address carbon dioxide emissions, but such emissions would be reduced as cars were forced to become more fuel efficient.
California’s proposed rules had sought to address the impact of carbon dioxide and other pollutants from cars and trucks that scientists say contribute to the warming of the planet.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California said the states would go to federal court to reverse the E.P.A. decision.
“It is disappointing that the federal government is standing in our way and ignoring the will of tens of millions of people across the nation,” Mr. Schwarzenegger said. “We will continue to fight this battle.”
He added, “California sued to compel the agency to act on our waiver, and now we will sue to overturn today’s decision and allow Californians to protect our environment.”
Twelve other states — New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington — had proposed standards like California’s, and the governors of Arizona, Colorado, Florida and Utah said they would do the same.
If the waiver had been granted and the 16 other states had adopted the California standard, it would have covered at least half of all vehicles sold in the United States.
Automakers praised the decision. “We commend E.P.A. for protecting a national, 50-state program,” said David McCurdy, president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. “Enhancing energy security and improving fuel economy are priorities to all automakers, but a patchwork quilt of inconsistent and competing fuel economy programs at the state level would only have created confusion, inefficiency and uncertainty for automakers and consumers.”
Industry analysts and environmental groups said the E.P.A. decision had the appearance of a reward to the industry, in return for dropping its opposition to the energy legislation. Auto industry leaders issued statements supporting the new energy law, which gives them more time to improve fuel economy than California would have.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/washington/20epa.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

I don't get how they believe they have that authority.

The feds can impose their laws, and the states can help them, ignore them, or set scricter ones. The fact that federal laws are weaker doesn't mean states can't preempt them. Where the hell do they get that idea?
 
I'd prefer to let the states handle it, but.... Constitutionally the EPA has a case. This IS an issue of interstate commerce. That's how the left justified the EPA in the first place. If they have no power to regulate interstate commerce then they cannot set minimums or maximums.

They have the right to regulate interstate commerce, not prevent states from regulating innerstate commerce.
 
Under what constitutional authority does the EPA set minimums? Answer, power to regulate interstate commerce. Hell, they claim authority on water quality and other intrastate issues.

Automobiles are interstate commerce (other than ones manufactured and sold in California) and the state have no power to regulate them.

If the EPA has a power to regulate minimums they have a power to set maximums as well.

...

No they don't.

RS, the argument that "they have the right to set maximum because they have the right to set minimums" is logically fallacious.
 
Well its a good thing that bush raised the CAFE standards to over "thirty-five miles per hour"... that according to bush himself today in a speech... what an idiot..
 
...

No they don't.

RS, the argument that "they have the right to set maximum because they have the right to set minimums" is logically fallacious.

You want to tell us why? You have not presented an argument troll.

The constitution does not state that congress will have the power to set minimums on the automobile industry. It is not that specific. The power derives from the power to regulate interstate commerce. How is that power being used to set minimums, but not maximums (which they actually have not set, they simply have in the past granted states waivers)?
 
You want to tell us why? You have not presented an argument troll.

The constitution does not state that congress will have the power to set minimums on the automobile industry. It is not that specific. The power derives from the power to regulate interstate commerce. How is that power being used to set minimums, but not maximums (which they actually have not set, they simply have in the past granted states waivers)?

The power to set limits on individuals doesn't give you the power to lower a states limit on individuals to their, you unconstitutional idioitic logically fallacious fucktard.

Listen, they don't TELL the state to set the minimum. They set it themselves, with their own police and beaurocracy. They cannot tell the states police and beaurocracy what to do.
 
"The feds have the authority to set maximums because they have the authority to set minimums."

How could that NOT be logically fallacious?

And they aren't "setting maximums", they're illegaly forcing states to lower their own individually set minimums.
 
Back
Top