APP - Islam - A Debate

M

midcan5

Member
An interesting debate, the University of Oxford. A must watch. Full debate is available.



"... Ground forces are going to make however much anger or terrorism there is worse, which is why when we invaded and conquered Iraq, we produced the largest suicide campaign in history...."

"And military occupation matters because it represents not exactly how many soldiers are on a piece of soil, but rather control of the local government, the local economic system, and the local social system. It’s the military occupation of the U.S. and NATO in Afghanistan that allows us to inform and impose change in women’s rights. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing; what I’m saying is that when you impose women’s rights at the point of a gun, then that creates a sense in the local community that they’ve lost their self-determination. What you’r"e seeing with not all, but most, suicide terrorists is a response to loss of self-determination for their local community." http://chicagopolicyreview.org/2015...sis-suicide-terrorism-and-u-s-foreign-policy/
 
midcan5 said:
An interesting debate, the University of Oxford. A must watch. Full debate is available.



"... Ground forces are going to make however much anger or terrorism there is worse, which is why when we invaded and conquered Iraq, we produced the largest suicide campaign in history...."

"And military occupation matters because it represents not exactly how many soldiers are on a piece of soil, but rather control of the local government, the local economic system, and the local social system. It’s the military occupation of the U.S. and NATO in Afghanistan that allows us to inform and impose change in women’s rights. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing; what I’m saying is that when you impose women’s rights at the point of a gun, then that creates a sense in the local community that they’ve lost their self-determination. What you’r"e seeing with not all, but most, suicide terrorists is a response to loss of self-determination for their local community." http://chicagopolicyreview.org/2015...sis-suicide-terrorism-and-u-s-foreign-policy/
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Thank you, he is very articulate and zings them with his humor and facts. I love the comment about Saudi Arabia, lol
 
Too bad we didn't get to hear exactly what he was responding to but, nevertheless, his was a entertaining response.....

He so reminded me of what we see on JPP every day from the left.....

An obviously crazy man in CO. goes into a PP building with a gun and by inference, every person against abortion is to blame,
Republicans are to blame
then Christians are to the blame....
Some other insane kid shoots up a school....and suddenly the NRA is to blame.
A rogue cop kills a black kid without sufficient provocation...and so every cop is to blame.

The examples go on and on, yet many on left don't see these things as a problem.....

Its been pointed out to everyone with eyes and ears that no one is blaming EVERY Muslim for the actions of the Islamic terrorists of today....thats strawman bullshit.
No one denies the Crusades didn't happen or that the Inquisition didn't happen...and to refer to those events in light of todays terrorism is more strawman bullshit...

The common denominator of most of today's terrorism against the west, against the "infidels" is undeniably religion based....and its not new....it has been happening for hundreds of years..
so to blame the invasion of Iraq is more strawman bullshit.

Muslim pirates were causing seizing men and ships in the Med in the 1700's, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once."

Thats over 200 years ago....its what they believed then and its what they believe now....


Bilateral relations between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United States of America began in 1933 when full diplomatic relations were established. Despite the differences between us, the two countries have been allies. We are not there by force, we are there by agreement.
 
NOVA said:
Too bad we didn't get to hear exactly what he was responding to but, nevertheless, his was a entertaining response.....

He so reminded me of what we see on JPP every day from the left.....

An obviously crazy man in CO. goes into a PP building with a gun and by inference, every person against abortion is to blame,
Republicans are to blame
then Christians are to the blame....
Some other insane kid shoots up a school....and suddenly the NRA is to blame.
A rogue cop kills a black kid without sufficient provocation...and so every cop is to blame.

The examples go on and on, yet many on left don't see these things as a problem.....

Its been pointed out to everyone with eyes and ears that no one is blaming EVERY Muslim for the actions of the Islamic terrorists of today....thats strawman bullshit.
No one denies the Crusades didn't happen or that the Inquisition didn't happen...and to refer to those events in light of todays terrorism is more strawman bullshit...

The common denominator of most of today's terrorism against the west, against the "infidels" is undeniably religion based....and its not new....it has been happening for hundreds of years..
so to blame the invasion of Iraq is more strawman bullshit.

Muslim pirates were causing seizing men and ships in the Med in the 1700's, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once."

Thats over 200 years ago....its what they believed then and its what they believe now....


Bilateral relations between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United States of America began in 1933 when full diplomatic relations were established. Despite the differences between us, the two countries have been allies. We are not there by force, we are there by agreement.
Click to expand...

There are people here on JPP everyday that blame all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists, you can't have missed those posts, you probably thanked them all.

Bin Ladin: As we mentioned before, God ordered us in this religion to purify Muslim land of all non-believers, and especially the Arabian Peninsula where the Ka'ba [in Mecca] is. After World War II, the Americans became more aggressive and oppressive, especially in the Muslim world. We are surprised this question is coming from Americans. Each action will solicit a similar reaction. We must use such punishment to keep your evil away from Muslims, Muslim children and women. American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, and not even women and children. Americans are the ones who used the bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people.
Your situation with Muslims in Palestine is shameful, if there is any shame left in America. In the Sabra and Shatilla massacre [of 1982], a cooperative effort between Zionist and Christian forces, houses were demolished over the heads of children. Also, according to testimony of relief workers in Iraq, the American-led sanctions resulted in the death of over one million Iraqi children.
All of this was done in the name of American interests. We believe the Americans are the biggest thieves and terrorists in the world.
We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwa. The fatwa includes all that share or take part in killing of Muslims, assaulting holy places, or those who help the Jews occupy Muslim land.

http://www.meforum.org/435/usama-bin-ladin-american-soldiers-are-paper-tigers
 
Rana said:
There are people here on JPP everyday that blame all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists, you can't have missed those posts, you probably thanked them all.

Bin Ladin: As we mentioned before, God ordered us in this religion to purify Muslim land of all non-believers, and especially the Arabian Peninsula where the Ka'ba [in Mecca] is. After World War II, the Americans became more aggressive and oppressive, especially in the Muslim world. We are surprised this question is coming from Americans. Each action will solicit a similar reaction. We must use such punishment to keep your evil away from Muslims, Muslim children and women. American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, and not even women and children. Americans are the ones who used the bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people.
Your situation with Muslims in Palestine is shameful, if there is any shame left in America. In the Sabra and Shatilla massacre [of 1982], a cooperative effort between Zionist and Christian forces, houses were demolished over the heads of children. Also, according to testimony of relief workers in Iraq, the American-led sanctions resulted in the death of over one million Iraqi children.
All of this was done in the name of American interests. We believe the Americans are the biggest thieves and terrorists in the world.
We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwa. The fatwa includes all that share or take part in killing of Muslims, assaulting holy places, or those who help the Jews occupy Muslim land.

http://www.meforum.org/435/usama-bin-ladin-american-soldiers-are-paper-tigers
Click to expand...



The Jewish forces were not involved in the Sabra and Shatilla deaths, neither were Americans.....the "Christians" you speak of were Lebanese...
The PLO didn't hesitate to kill Jewish civilian women and children, and the Lebanese didn't either, we can't control them.....and none it had anything to do American interests....

Seems you believe Bin Ladin over your own country ? Quite the patriot you are.

Like I pointed out, and proved from history, the common denominator of most of today's terrorism against the west, against the "infidels" is undeniably religion based....and its not new....it has been happening for hundreds of years.....how can you be so sure how widespread it is ?....If given the opportunity to murder infidels with impunity, you have no clue what the majority
of the Islamic people might do.....
 
NOVA said:
The Jewish forces were not involved in the Sabra and Shatilla deaths, neither were Americans.....the "Christians" you speak of were Lebanese...
The PLO didn't hesitate to kill Jewish civilian women and children, and the Lebanese didn't either, we can't control them.....and none it had anything to do American interests....

Seems you believe Bin Ladin over your own country ? Quite the patriot you are.

Like I pointed out, and proved from history, the common denominator of most of today's terrorism against the west, against the "infidels" is undeniably religion based....and its not new....it has been happening for hundreds of years.....how can you be so sure how widespread it is ?....If given the opportunity to murder infidels with impunity, you have no clue what the majority
of the Islamic people might do.....
Click to expand...

As for the American-led sanctions resulted in the death of over one million Iraqi children......Thank Bill Clinton for that, you voted for him, not me

Over 576,000 Iraqi children dead ?
Bill Clinton thought it was worth it.....

 
NOVA said:
The Jewish forces were not involved in the Sabra and Shatilla deaths, neither were Americans.....the "Christians" you speak of were Lebanese...
The PLO didn't hesitate to kill Jewish civilian women and children, and the Lebanese didn't either, we can't control them.....and none it had anything to do American interests....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?_r=0

ON the night of Sept. 16, 1982, the Israeli military allowed a right-wing Lebanese militia to enter two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In the ensuing three-day rampage, the militia, linked to the Maronite Christian Phalange Party, raped, killed and dismembered at least 800 civilians, while Israeli flares illuminated the camps’ narrow and darkened alleyways. Nearly all of the dead were women, children and elderly men.

I didn't speak of any Christians, Nova, the words are from Bin Ladin himself and they detail why he attacked the West. It is the reason I posted the comment to show you that you were incorrect, that the terrorists want us out of Muslim lands.

You have not proven anything, and Bin Ladin's words disprove what you think you have proved.
Click to expand...
 
Rana said:
There are people here on JPP everyday that blame all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists, you can't have missed those posts, you probably thanked them all.

Bin Ladin: As we mentioned before, God ordered us in this religion to purify Muslim land of all non-believers, and especially the Arabian Peninsula where the Ka'ba [in Mecca] is. After World War II, the Americans became more aggressive and oppressive, especially in the Muslim world. We are surprised this question is coming from Americans. Each action will solicit a similar reaction. We must use such punishment to keep your evil away from Muslims, Muslim children and women. American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, and not even women and children. Americans are the ones who used the bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people.
Your situation with Muslims in Palestine is shameful, if there is any shame left in America. In the Sabra and Shatilla massacre [of 1982], a cooperative effort between Zionist and Christian forces, houses were demolished over the heads of children. Also, according to testimony of relief workers in Iraq, the American-led sanctions resulted in the death of over one million Iraqi children.
All of this was done in the name of American interests. We believe the Americans are the biggest thieves and terrorists in the world.
We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwa. The fatwa includes all that share or take part in killing of Muslims, assaulting holy places, or those who help the Jews occupy Muslim land.

http://www.meforum.org/435/usama-bin-ladin-american-soldiers-are-paper-tigers
Click to expand...

There are people here on JPP everyday that blame all gun owners for the actions of a few, you can't have missed those posts, you probably thanked them all.
 
NOVA said:
You can't comprehend the post even when I use small words....

You deny historical fact....

Like all pinheads, you live in your own little world of fantasy.....waiting for DNC to tell you what to think.

Don't waste my time...
Click to expand...

I am not a Democrat, Vanilla, and I an afraid that you grossly overlook the terrorism of Israel.
 
NOVA said:
You can't comprehend the post even when I use small words....

You deny historical fact....

Like all pinheads, you live in your own little world of fantasy.....waiting for DNC to tell you what to think.

Don't waste my time...
Click to expand...

I thought name calling, vulgarity and petty derision were against the rules in APP.
 
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