APP - juveniles are different from adults, especially younger juveniels

Schadenfreude

patriot and widower
imo, the age of a juvenile should determine how that juvenile is interrogated and what rights should be explained to the juvenile


U.S. Supreme Court hears N.C. case on juveniles in custody​

The News & Observer


By Barbara Barrett, The News & Observer, Raleigh, N.C. March 23--WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments today on whether police officers ought to consider a young suspect's age before deciding to tell him or her about the right to remain silent and to have an attorney.

In a case involving a North Carolina juvenile and argued by N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper, the justices must decide whether children, by their very nature, are more likely than an adult to feel restrained when being interrogated and should therefore be more likely to be given a Miranda warning.

The decision could have sweeping implications for young suspects who are interrogated by law enforcement, and for communities trying to protect themselves from crime.

Currently under federal law, a suspect taken into custody must be read his or her Miranda rights by law enforcement. Certain uses of restraint handcuffs, a prolonged interrogation, certain surroundings add up to custody.

Under court law, if a "reasonable person" would feel free to leave, the rights need not be read.

"We're requiring children to be someone they never could be, and that's reasonable adults," said Barbara S. Blackman, of the N.C. Appellate Defender's office, which brought the case to the Supreme Court.

The case, J.D.B. vs. North Carolina, arises out of a larceny charge in Chapel Hill. A juvenile police detective went to the youth's school after two neighborhood break-ins, had him pulled out of class and then asked him about the situation.

The boy, then age 13, was questioned in a school conference room with four adults. The door was closed -- but not locked. The child never was read his Miranda rights. He confessed to the break-ins, and was later charged.

J.D.B.'s attorneys tried to have the confession suppressed, but Orange County District Court judge refused. That refusal was upheld by state's appeals and supreme courts.

In the hour-long argument before the U.S. Supreme Court today, attorneys for J.D.B. and the state took turns presenting their sides to the nine justices. They were interrupted often as justices peppered them with questions.

Cooper, arguing his first high court case, warned that forcing officers to consider a suspect's youth would "turn Miranda upside down" and put too great a burden on law enforcement.

"That's what this case is all about: keeping Miranda simple and effective," Cooper said later.

He pointed out that juveniles already have rights that consider their age once a case reaches court. Then, prosecutors must submit to a process known as the "involuntariness" test, in which a judge decides whether the confession was truly voluntary.

"Age fundamentally changes the 'reasonable person' test," Cooper told the high court. "It makes it complex."

But he was questioned sharply by Justice Stephen Breyer, who suggested another test. If a suspect's age is among the details known to the officer, then the officer should consider youth in deciding whether a suspect is in custody.

Justices Ruth Ginsburg and Elena Kagan also seemed skeptical of arguments that officers don't always know the age of a suspect.

Ginsburg pointed out that in this case, the officer was a juvenile detective visiting a suspect at a middle school. "It's not a mystery," she said.

But other justices urged caution, especially in questioning Blackman, who argued the case on behalf of J.D.B.

The Miranda warning now is given according to what, in court-speak, is called an Â'objective' test, meaning known details such as whether there are handcuffs or whether a police officer is guarding a door.

Bring in age, warned Justice Antonin Scalia, "don't you in effect say it is a subjective inquiry?"

He followed up, hinting at a slippery slope. "What about mental deficiency?"
Justice Samuel Alito wondered whether an adult trial judge -- he suggested one at the age of 60 -- would later have to get his mind into the head of a youngster.

"They must have greater imaginative powers than I would have under the circumstances," Alito said.

And Chief Justice John Roberts wondered whether any age difference is needed.

"Why not say, "'Look, we've got one strict rule,' " Roberts said. "Everyone knows it. You hear it on TV all the time."

The Miranda warning is still the same rule, Blackman responded, but it would have to be read to juveniles who perceive themselves to be in custody. "The focus here is what the police officer must do," she said.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, in many ways the court's ideological mid-point, had just a few questions during the argument.

He wondered whether, as long as the Miranda warning is read, if that would satisfy Blackman's case. Blackman said the Miranda could be changed for a child's comprehension, but even as it is, she said, "children at least have an opportunity to know their rights."

And later, speaking to Cooper, he said that part of the problem with reading children Miranda rights is the way it sounds to a young ear. "You have the right to remain silent -- it would terrify the kid," Kennedy said.

The U.S. Supreme Court's decision in the case is expected later this year.

bbarrett@mcclatchydc.com or 202-383-0012
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They have a right to have their parent/attorney present. Period.

only if the juvenile is taken into custody, otherwise, it is not interrogation but questioning

the matter before the court is where is the line between custody and just questioning and can statements made by the juvenile be used against him if he does not have an attorney/parent present and he has been advised of his miranda rights
 
when a child is in school, the schools teachers and administrative staff are considered the guardians of such children, so why weren't they active in the interrogation?
 
only if the juvenile is taken into custody, otherwise, it is not interrogation but questioning

the matter before the court is where is the line between custody and just questioning and can statements made by the juvenile be used against him if he does not have an attorney/parent present and he has been advised of his miranda rights

Which is total rubbish, all they do is call every arrest something different while the effect is removing rights from only adolescents and children. It's legal fabrication, and if we allow it without objection then we are well beyond the "land of the free"...
 
when a child is in school, the schools teachers and administrative staff are considered the guardians of such children, so why weren't they active in the interrogation?

They can't be both police and loco parentis. There is conflicting interest. Once they become an arm of the executive the student/child absolutely should be afforded a true advocate. Their parent or advocate should be present at all questioning. Kids can be pressured into all sorts of things by authority, we've trained it into them. They'll sign stuff, even say stuff, if they think that is what the authority figure wants. It is in these cases that it is more important to ensure that they have a true advocate, not two different arms of the same branch of government ready to punish them for violations.
 
Which is total rubbish, all they do is call every arrest something different while the effect is removing rights from only adolescents and children. It's legal fabrication, and if we allow it without objection then we are well beyond the "land of the free"...


hence the involvement of scotus

it also, comes back to what rights do children have - law enforcement seems to want to erode the rights of all citizens, adults or minors
 
hence the involvement of scotus

it also, comes back to what rights do children have - law enforcement seems to want to erode the rights of all citizens, adults or minors

I can understand why, if you don't have the right to remain silent then they can pressure you into a statement. Law enforcement wants to "solve" cases, and sometimes the truth is a victim of the process. Minors in particular need to have the protection of a true advocate, we cannot allow the enforcement officer (Principal) to be considered both the advocate and the enforcer, children need to have the absolute right (one that they cannot give up willingly or unwillingly) to have their parent/guardian informed and present during any interrogation by enforcement agencies.
 
I can understand why, if you don't have the right to remain silent then they can pressure you into a statement. Law enforcement wants to "solve" cases, and sometimes the truth is a victim of the process. Minors in particular need to have the protection of a true advocate, we cannot allow the enforcement officer (Principal) to be considered both the advocate and the enforcer, children need to have the absolute right (one that they cannot give up willingly or unwillingly) to have their parent/guardian informed and present during any interrogation by enforcement agencies.

"children need to have the absolute right (one that they cannot give up willingly or unwillingly) to have their parent/guardian informed and present during any interrogation by enforcement agencies."

Absolutely! Allowing someone trained in interrogation, knowing all the tricks, interrogating a minor without the parent present is outrageous.
 
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