List containing a small percentage of those murdered by conservatives

well I tell you, if I was a policeman and I discovered that Grayson had a list of 44,000 people and they were all dead I would be looking into Grayson's alibis for the nights in question.....
 
apple0154 said:
The average life span is longer in western countries which have universal medical. That is a fact. No speculation involved.

Health care costs less per person in western countries with universal medical. That is a fact. No speculation involved.

As for speculating on the deaths read by the Congressman he specifically stated the reason some people didn't go to the doctor was due to financial consideration. Did you watch the video?
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lmao.....now its about "western" countries......

don't like those UM stats when they don't support your false correlation huh.....:)
 
Voltaire said:
No, these people died as a result of misguided social entitlements such as Medicare and government mandates on health insurance companies which drive up the cost of health services. Should we discuss the number of Canadians who have died while on the waiting list for surgery? I have personal experience with that one, FYI.

Or perhaps we could talk about the British citizens who have died in government hospitals because the government has no financial interest in keeping their patients alive?

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts...l-Appalling-neglect-that-led-to-1-200-deaths/

These people were treated like animals. I've never heard of anything like that occurring in the United States in modern times. Have you?

My point isn't to start a debate about which system is superior (I have no interest in such a debate, as the answer seems pretty plain to me), but rather to demonstrate that your view of single-payer health care is unattainably Utopian. No system is perfect, because people aren't perfect.
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I wouldn't go there. Based on the data on mortality and morbidity rates and other health care outcome indicators you would lose that argument badly based purely upon the data.

The fact of the matter is unavoidable. We pay nearly double what other nations do for health care and we achieve second world results. One of the big drivers of increasing health care cost and poor outcomes is the vast numbers of uninsured who don't have access to health care until a minor problem, like an easily treated infection, becomes a life threatening illness that requires emergency treatment or surgeries costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. By assuring that those people have access for early treatment and diagnosis not only can we prevent many thousands of those deaths we can also substantially reduce cost.
 
Yurt said:
lmao.....now its about "western" countries......

don't like those UM stats when they don't support your false correlation huh.....:)
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The opponents of universal medical continually whine about comparing countries so when I use stats from countries that are the closest comparison we have folks like you who still whine.

Nice try, Yurt.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I wouldn't go there. Based on the data on mortality and morbidity rates and other health care outcome indicators you would lose that argument badly based purely upon the data.

The fact of the matter is unavoidable. We pay nearly double what other nations do for health care and we achieve second world results. One of the big drivers of increasing health care cost and poor outcomes is the vast numbers of uninsured who don't have access to health care until a minor problem, like an easily treated infection, becomes a life threatening illness that requires emergency treatment or surgeries costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. By assuring that those people have access for early treatment and diagnosis not only can we prevent many thousands of those deaths we can also substantially reduce cost.
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It's just basic common sense and no one can rationally argue against it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Ah leave it to you PiMP to come up with the irrelevant. Do you actually believe that access to early diagnosis and preventative health care would not save lives and reduce costs?
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what I actually believe is that if there is someone out there without access to early diagnosis and preventative health care there is a good chance that they are a homeless person with a chemical dependency or a low level mental imbalance that does not warrant putting them into a protected environment and that no level of increased health care is going to solve that problem.......

out of a nation of over 300 million am I going to find 44k people who, over the last twenty years have died under circumstances where family members are going to blame doctors and hospitals instead of the disease.....yes....

do I think we need to junk our entire health system and replace it with something that makes liberals ejaculate in their sleep?.......no.....

do I think Obama's healthcare plan will do anything to change the problems faced by the people on Grayson's web site?......no......

do I think it's going to cause a whole new set of problems........yes......

do I think it makes a difference if our average life expectancy is 79.5 years or 81.2 years?........no......

averages are averages......I can still die at age 32 or age 95 whether the average is 70 or 80......we should be more concerned about places where the average is less than 50......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
what I actually believe is that if there is someone out there without access to early diagnosis and preventative health care there is a good chance that they are a homeless person with a chemical dependency or a low level mental imbalance that does not warrant putting them into a protected environment and that no level of increased health care is going to solve that problem.......

out of a nation of over 300 million am I going to find 44k people who, over the last twenty years have died under circumstances where family members are going to blame doctors and hospitals instead of the disease.....yes....

do I think we need to junk our entire health system and replace it with something that makes liberals ejaculate in their sleep?.......no.....

do I think Obama's healthcare plan will do anything to change the problems faced by the people on Grayson's web site?......no......

do I think it's going to cause a whole new set of problems........yes......

do I think it makes a difference if our average life expectancy is 79.5 years or 81.2 years?........no......

averages are averages......I can still die at age 32 or age 95 whether the average is 70 or 80......we should be more concerned about places where the average is less than 50......
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Well you need to get out into the real world son. There were, until recently 30 million uninsured and if you're bigoted enough to think they are all homeless and crazy.....well someone is crazy but it's not the uninsured.
 
apple0154 said:
The opponents of universal medical continually whine about comparing countries so when I use stats from countries that are the closest comparison we have folks like you who still whine.

Nice try, Yurt.
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no one is whining, i'm simply pointing out your attempt at proving correlation was a miserable failure
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well you need to get out into the real world son. There were, until recently 30 million uninsured and if you're bigoted enough to think they are all homeless and crazy.....well someone is crazy but it's not the uninsured.
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correction....until recently there were 30 millioh uninsured and today the same 30 million are uninsured and they MIGHT be insured sometime in 2014 or 2015 if the government actually finds enough money to pay for their insurance.....and, I didn't say 30 million people were homeless and crazy.....I said I expected it to be easy to find 44,000 who were homeless and crazy....even if I don't count you......
 
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