MASS DEMOCRAT State Treasurer: "Dem healthcare will bankrupt America"

KingCondanomation

KingCondanomation

New member
Even Dem leftwingers from Mass realize the obvious, we cannot even afford the healthcare we have now with over $800 billion per year going to support Medicaid and Medicare for just 100 million Americans, how on earth can we afford government healthcare for the rest?
What Obama and Dems are trying to give us, Mass already has and it is failing them BADLY.

"“I was afraid of what we had already been getting in Massachusetts, and at that point in 2008, I was aware that it wasn’t working,” he said. Separately yesterday, Cahill accused Obama of “propping up” the Bay State’s health plan with federal aid in order to help push the Democrats’ plan through Congress.

“The real problem is that this . . . sucking sound of money has been going into this health-care reform,” Cahill said. “And I would argue that it’s being propped up so that the federal government and the Obama administration can drive it through.”

Gov. Deval Patrick argues the state’s universal health care program has added 1 percent to the budget, but Cahill said the real impact is buffered by federal dollars.

Meanwhile, Republican Charles Baker’s campaign said Patrick “has consistently failed to address rising health-care costs in Massachusetts.” Baker, the former Harvard Pilgrim CEO, advocated for years for greater transparency on the part of medical service providers.

Cahill called on congressional Democrats yesterday to go “back to the drawing board,” saying he fears they will “bankrupt” the country."
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1240176
 
KingCondanomation said:
Even Dem leftwingers from Mass realize the obvious, we cannot even afford the healthcare we have now with over $800 billion per year going to support Medicaid and Medicare for just 100 million Americans, how on earth can we afford government healthcare for the rest?
What Obama and Dems are trying to give us, Mass already has and it is failing them BADLY.

"“I was afraid of what we had already been getting in Massachusetts, and at that point in 2008, I was aware that it wasn’t working,” he said. Separately yesterday, Cahill accused Obama of “propping up” the Bay State’s health plan with federal aid in order to help push the Democrats’ plan through Congress.

“The real problem is that this . . . sucking sound of money has been going into this health-care reform,” Cahill said. “And I would argue that it’s being propped up so that the federal government and the Obama administration can drive it through.”

Gov. Deval Patrick argues the state’s universal health care program has added 1 percent to the budget, but Cahill said the real impact is buffered by federal dollars.

Meanwhile, Republican Charles Baker’s campaign said Patrick “has consistently failed to address rising health-care costs in Massachusetts.” Baker, the former Harvard Pilgrim CEO, advocated for years for greater transparency on the part of medical service providers.

Cahill called on congressional Democrats yesterday to go “back to the drawing board,” saying he fears they will “bankrupt” the country."
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1240176
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Cahill is an independent that voted for John McCain. The fact that he says something doesn't make it so.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Cahill is an independent that voted for John McCain. The fact that he says something doesn't make it so.
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He is a former Dem politician until just last year. And yes like many independents he is very worried about the far left Democrat party's attempts at spending vast amounts of money on healthcare, calling it reform and he knows first hand that it has failed terribly already in Mass.
 
KingCondanomation said:
He is a former Dem politician until just last year. And yes like many independents he is very worried about the far left Democrat party's attempts at spending vast amounts of money on healthcare, calling it reform and he knows first hand that it has failed terribly already in Mass.
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Like I said, Cahill is an independent that voted for John McCain. He's not a Democrat.

And reform hasn't failed terribly in Mass. That's what you don't seem to understand. Hell, Scott Brown ran on the fact that the Massachusetts reform is working and that Massachusetts doesn't need the federal government meddling with the successful reforms.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Like I said, Cahill is an independent that voted for John McCain. He's not a Democrat.

And reform hasn't failed terribly in Mass. That's what you don't seem to understand. Hell, Scott Brown ran on the fact that the Massachusetts reform is working and that Massachusetts doesn't need the federal government meddling with the successful reforms.
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What, are we supposed to agree it's a success because Scott Brown is a Repub and thinks it was? Sorry man, you are the partisan party guy that defends his party 100%, not me.

Let's look at what really happened:
- Out of control spending, costs have more than DOUBLED, In February 2008 the Boston Globe reported that Commonwealth Care covered 169,000 people and had a projected cost of $618 million for the fiscal year. By June 2011 enrollment is projected to grow to 342,000 people at an annual expense of $1.35 billion.

- Less business starts (and consequently less jobs), the impact of Massachusetts approach to health financing reform, insurance mandates, on the rate of new business starts in Massachusetts versus New Hampshire. Along with an earlier dissertation published in April of 2008, it finds that new business starts were reduced in Massachusetts by 16%

- higher employer and individual taxes and more tax penalties for those who don't submit to your FORCED healthcare insurance

- losing people, high-tax, high-regulation Massachusetts has been losing people year over year and you would think with free healthcare, all those desperate Americans we keep hearing about from Dems would be flocking there yet instead they are fleeing, THAT alone should tell you more than anything else we've heard in this entire debate.
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/census/press.htm

I could go on, it's been a disaster and rather than repeal it, the Dems brilliant idea is to take it and force it on the entire nation at a time when we cannot even afford the fed healthcare programs that ALREADY exist.
 
LOL, if he said it, he's wrong. Obviously wrong. The bill would reduce the deficit, because the tax that comes with it is slightly larger than the payout. This would increase after 2020.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Like I said, Cahill is an independent that voted for John McCain. He's not a Democrat.

And reform hasn't failed terribly in Mass. That's what you don't seem to understand. Hell, Scott Brown ran on the fact that the Massachusetts reform is working and that Massachusetts doesn't need the federal government meddling with the successful reforms.
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And that's where SB is wrong. The reform would undoubtedly be good for the MA taxpayer. For one thing, it replaces consumption taxes on the poor and middle class that were used to pay for HCR with taxes on the rich. It also eliminates the "race to the bottom" effect that makes MA less attractive to businesses (due to the taxation incurred by the subsidies). The effect of passing HCR would undoubtedly be overwhelmingly positive for the MA economy. I can hardly think of anyone who loses in this battle besides the top 1%, insurance companies, and Republican feelings.
 
Bittermark said:
And that's where SB is wrong. The reform would undoubtedly be good for the MA taxpayer. For one thing, it replaces consumption taxes on the poor and middle class that were used to pay for HCR with taxes on the rich. It also eliminates the "race to the bottom" effect that makes MA less attractive to businesses (due to the taxation incurred by the subsidies). The effect of passing HCR would undoubtedly be overwhelmingly positive for the MA economy. I can hardly think of anyone who loses in this battle besides the top 1%, insurance companies, and Republican feelings.
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WRONG. It would be a really neat trick if you can come up with any piece of legislation that simultaneously increases spending, reduces the deficit and reduces taxes. Mass is ALREADY less attractive to business - they are leaving and not choosing to start up there.

Mass was never in a race to the bottom as businesses are not just solely interested in less costs, they need a skilled workforce and they have that in Mass but even so they have limits to what they can tolerate.

Let's look at what really happened:
- Out of control spending, costs have more than DOUBLED, In February 2008 the Boston Globe reported that Commonwealth Care covered 169,000 people and had a projected cost of $618 million for the fiscal year. By June 2011 enrollment is projected to grow to 342,000 people at an annual expense of $1.35 billion.

- Less business starts (and consequently less jobs), the impact of Massachusetts approach to health financing reform, insurance mandates, on the rate of new business starts in Massachusetts versus New Hampshire. Along with an earlier dissertation published in April of 2008, it finds that new business starts were reduced in Massachusetts by 16%

- higher employer and individual taxes and more tax penalties for those who don't submit to your FORCED healthcare insurance

- losing people, high-tax, high-regulation Massachusetts has been losing people year over year and you would think with free healthcare, all those desperate Americans we keep hearing about from Dems would be flocking there yet instead they are fleeing, THAT alone should tell you more than anything else we've heard in this entire debate.
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/census/press.htm

Facts versus your usual theorectical made-up-on-the-fly plausible sounding bullshit.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Mass was never in a race to the bottom as businesses are not just solely interested in less costs, they need a skilled workforce and they have that in Mass but even so they have limits to what they can tolerate.
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There is a definite race to the bottom effect on interstate commerce when it comes to a welfare state. States can gain an artificial advantage over one another by fucking over their citizens. You have essentially made my point. You just think it's a positive and I think it's a negative.
 
Topspin said:
kingofbullshit, your debt number is not from HC. It's from murder I don't care!!!
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Neither of us or anyone can pick and choose what spending that debt comes from and what it doesn't. YES some of it is from war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, close to $1 trillion of it is, but how much have we spent in healthcare since 2001?
About $7 trillion and let's not forget that much of that debt is from BEFORE the wars and we have been paying for Medicare and Medicaid since 1964.

Please you're a reasonable guy so see reason here, don't let your good financial judgment be clouded by hate for Iraq.
 
Bittermark said:
There is a definite race to the bottom effect on interstate commerce when it comes to a welfare state. States can gain an artificial advantage over one another by fucking over their citizens. You have essentially made my point. You just think it's a positive and I think it's a negative.
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Bull fucking shit, who the hell thought people were fucked over by welfare reform? People get stronger and more self-sufficient and ultimately richer with less of a welfare state.
And again it is NOT a race to the bottom, if it was then all fucking business would go to some ungodly nation like Cameroon a long time ago.

you really don't understand business water, they have many pros and cons when considering where to do business, but be damn sure one of them is taxes and raising taxes (which ultimately runs off business and with it job creation) and pretending that it will help overall with the economy is complete bullshit.
 
I plan on buying some of that debt once the bubble pops and the rates go way up. No way we go bankrupt. That's the moron's code
 
KingCondanomation said:
Bull fucking shit, who the hell thought people were fucked over by welfare reform? People get stronger and more self-sufficient and ultimately richer with less of a welfare state.
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Then why have median wages increased since 1980 at 1/3 the rate of the 30 years prior? We have the conservative revolution to thank.

KingCondanomation said:
And again it is NOT a race to the bottom, if it was then all fucking business would go to some ungodly nation like Cameroon a long time ago.
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The US is obviously a much better business environment than Cameroon.

KingCondanomation said:
you really don't understand business water, they have many pros and cons when considering where to do business, but be damn sure one of them is taxes and raising taxes (which ultimately runs off business and with it job creation) and pretending that it will help overall with the economy is complete bullshit.
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A race to the bottom is easier when there's a lot of labor mobility, etc....

It's easy to relocate your business from MA to Delaware. Not so easy to move to the Cayman Islands. Which is the main reason why the federal level is a better place for reform.
 
waterstain, get a job your making our side look bad.

Your allowance has gone up in the last 10 years. Your Daddy's salary must be going up.
 
Yurt said:
wow...way to refute his points buck rogers
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What points are there to refute? As was pointed out in the original "article" the Massachusetts health reform amounts to 1% of the state budget.

The only fact that Cahill asserts is that Massachusetts is propped up by the federal government, yet he fails to cite what federal money he is talking about or how Massachusetts is getting some sort of benefit that every other state does not get. The fact of the matter is that Massachusetts does not get special treatment and its reform is working quite nicely.

Cahill is just plain wrong. Just because he says something does not make it true.
 
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