Minimum Wage Is Overpayment

[toby]

On Cspan a democrat used this example of why min wage needs to be raised. He said a woman who supported a family of three worked 9 years at min wage and couldn't pay her bills.

I say this woman is overpaid. If she worked 9 years in the same job and only made min wage she is an idiot and is overpaid at 5 dollars an hour.

Make a rational argument and not some made of BS of a story. And well if she is supporting a family of three then 2 dollars an hour more just isn't enought.

 

[uscitizen]

You just made my point on the "living wage issue" for me Toby thanks.
our capabilities and intelligence levels are mostly determined at birth. Also whether we like to admit it or not a caste system exists in the USA. This cast system is not religious or unbreachable in nature , but it exists.
Some people will only be able to ever handle a minimum wage job, should they be denied a reasonable living due to the circumstances of their intelligence level, which they have no control over ?
I just hate to see people sufer from no fault of their own.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

You just made my point on the "living wage issue" for me Toby thanks.
our capabilities and intelligence levels are mostly determined at birth. Also whether we like to admit it or not a caste system exists in the USA. This cast system is not religious or unbreachable in nature , but it exists.
Some people will only be able to ever handle a minimum wage job, should they be denied a reasonable living due to the circumstances of their intelligence level, which they have no control over ?
I just hate to see people sufer from no fault of their own.

But . . . but . . . but us: what's the fun of being one of the lucky ones if you can't sneer at and belittle the other guys?

 

[uscitizen]

But . . . but . . . but us: what's the fun of being one of the lucky ones if you can't sneer at and belittle the other guys?

Shoud that be on the republicans/demoncrat thread Ornot ?

 

[toby]

It is not the responsibility of private business to support retards. If you want give all idiots to have a min wage then make it a direct goverment program.

 

[uscitizen]

No toby ist is not the responsibility of businesses to do it, but I feel it is the responsibility of our society to do it. And businesses are a part of our society.
We all would pay for it anyway in slightly elevated prices. I would much rather that raise goes into a working persons pocket that a millionaire's trading stocks on Wall street.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

It is not the responsibility of private business to support retards. If you want give all idiots to have a min wage then make it a direct goverment program.

Oh, so you prefer welfare? Fascinating. Personally, I'd rather keep people off welfare unless absolutely necessary: it's too demeaning.

We all end up supporting the less able anyway. That's part of what society is for. A big part, actually.

 

[toby]

I didn't say I agreed with US's point, but if that is his point then the problems should be addressed directly and not hidden away. If some people are to stupid to earn a living then maybe they shouldn't be paid to be in the workforce and should be handled in a more direct way.

 

[Damocles]

I still have never seen anybody working for minumum... Truly, never. Everybody in the Denver Metro area makes more than the current suggestion to raise the minumum to...

I mean, I recently read a story of how hard it was for small business to find qualified people to work and have to raise the wages even higher to successfully obtain people to employ.

 

[uscitizen]

All True Christians should support helping the less fortunate.
Jesus said to do it, or so the rumor goes.

Toby I have worked with ARC and it is joyous to see how they just light up when they find out they can do a job like everyone else, even if it is just bagging groceries, or washing dishes. We are not much of anything without a sense of self worth and pride.

When I lived in FL I shopped at a grocery store that helped the local ARC chapter out with bagger, cart gatherer and cleaning jobs for the retards.
I personally told the management on several occasions that I liked them doing that and it would keep me as a loyal customer.

 

[Damocles]

All True Christians should support helping the less fortunate.
Jesus said to do it, or so the rumor goes.

Toby I have worked with ARC and it is joyous to see how they just light up when they find out they can do a job like everyone else, even if it is just bagging groceries, or washing dishes. We are not much of anything without a sense of self worth and pride.

When I lived in FL I shopped at a grocery store that helped the local ARC chapter out with bagger, cart gatherer and cleaning jobs for the retards.
I personally told the management on several occasions that I liked them doing that and it would keep me as a loyal customer.

However, the Government is not a Christian. All good Christians realize that it was a personal responsibility, not that of the government.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes Damo, but if the Christians are in the majority and this is a representative democracy type of government.....

 

[OrnotBitwise]

However, the Government is not a Christian. All good Christians realize that it was a personal responsibility, not that of the government.

Government is often the mechanism by which we fullfill our personal responsibilities. That's why we pay taxes and why taxes support social welfare. It's akin to putting money out of reach because we know that otherwise we'd spend it.

 

[Damocles]

Yes Damo, but if the Christians are in the majority and this is a representative democracy type of government.....

It doesn't matter. Relegating your responsibility to others (government) is not a Christian concept.

 

[Damocles]

Government is often the mechanism by which we fullfill our personal responsibilities. That's why we pay taxes and why taxes support social welfare. It's akin to putting money out of reach because we know that otherwise we'd spend it.

Once again, the impersonal tool of government is a means to force others to follow your principles. In this case, it is not a personal obligation fulfilled, you have simply taken and given other's money in place of your own.

Christ never stated the Government was to be the means to fulfill your responsibility. He spoke of a very personal role you were to play in life, attempting to fulfill it through an impersonal means whereby others fulfill much of your obligation for you was not something that Christ preached.

 

[uscitizen]

It doesn't matter. Relegating your responsibility to others (government) is not a Christian concept.

LOL, au Contrare my friend, you are supposed to ba a lamb and follow the good sheperds lead. or any church official since jesus has not come back yet

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Once again, the impersonal tool of government is a means to force others to follow your principles. In this case, it is not a personal obligation fulfilled, you have simply taken and given other's money in place of your own.

Christ never stated the Government was to be the means to fulfill your responsibility. He spoke of a very personal role you were to play in life, attempting to fulfill it through an impersonal means whereby others fulfill much of your obligation for you was not something that Christ preached.

No, that's incorrect. Or not the only way of looking at it. You are alienated from government to a greater degree than I, I suppose.

Government is, by and large, the only effective tool we have for such purposes. It boots nothing whether you think it should be or not. The fact is that private charity always and inevitably falls short. Always has and always will, at least at the nation-state level of organization.

 

[uscitizen]

Have you told the pope this yet Damo ?

 

[Damocles]

LOL, au Contrare my friend, you are supposed to ba a lamb and follow the good sheperds lead. or any church official since jesus has not come back yet

That is not government, that is the Church. Two very different concepts, especially in a nation that is supposed to separate the two.

Either you believe in a separation or you don't. Don't attempt to force me to follow your precepts from your church through the government simply because you believe it to be "christian". That is not a Christian concept at all. Christ had every opportunity to speak of the responsibility of government, he instead spoke of your personal life and of a personal relationship. Having a borg-like enforcement of Christian Principle is not a Christian teaching.

 

[Damocles]

No, that's incorrect. Or not the only way of looking at it. You are alienated from government to a greater degree than I, I suppose.

Government is, by and large, the only effective tool we have for such purposes. It boots nothing whether you think it should be or not. The fact is that private charity always and inevitably falls short. Always has and always will, at least at the nation-state level of organization.

This isn't an argument against government responsibility toward certain things, it is specifically and pointedly an argument against an assertion that it is "christian" and that is why we should do it.

The pretense is sickening. Christ spoke to your personal responsibility and refused to get into the governmental responsibility. He had every opportunity and, in fact, was killed for political reasons regardless of the fact that he never went there in his teaching.