National ID card - REAL ID Legislation and the states against it.

ViolaLee

ViolaLee

We are not amused
Fifteen States Have Passed Anti-REAL ID Legislation. As the deadline for compliance draws closer, more states are opting out of the controversial REAL ID national identification system. The states that have passed anti-REAL ID legislation are: Arkansas (pdf), Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Carolina, and Washington. The resistance to REAL ID is growing. In May, more than 60 organizations and 215 blogs joined a campaign to submit comments against REAL ID. There are bills in both the U.S. House and Senate that would repeal the national identification scheme. EPIC and 24 experts in privacy and technology submitted detailed comments (pdf) explaining the many privacy and security threats raised by the REAL ID Act. For more information, see EPIC's Spotlight on Surveillance for March. (June 5)
Click to expand...

In response to the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001, there has been renewed interest in the creation of national ID cards. Soon after the attacks, Larry Ellison, head of California-based software company Oracle Corporation, called for the development of a national identification system and offered to donate the technology to make this possible. He proposed ID cards with embedded digitized thumbprints and photographs of all legal residents in the U.S. There was much public debate about the issue, and Congressional hearings were held. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich testified that he "would not institute a national ID card because you do get into civil liberties issues." When it created the Department of Homeland Security, Congress made clear in the enabling legislation that the agency could not create a national ID system. In September 2004, then-DHS Secretary Tom Ridge reiterated, "[t]he legislation that created the Department of Homeland Security was very specific on the question of a national ID card. They said there will be no national ID card."
Click to expand...

The REAL ID Act of 2005 creates a de facto national identification card. Ostensibly voluntary, it would become mandatory as those without the card would face suspicion and increased scrutiny. It is a law imposing federal technological standards and verification procedures on state driver's licenses and identification cards, many of which are beyond the current capacity of the federal government, and mandating state compliance by May 2008. In fact, REAL ID turns state DMV workers into federal immigration officials, as they must verify the citizenship status of all those who want a REAL ID-approved state driver's license or identification cards. State DMVs would far move away from their core mission -- to license drivers.

REAL ID was appended to a bill providing tsunami relief and military appropriations, and passed with little debate and no hearings. The REAL ID Act repealed provisions in the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, which contained "carefully crafted language -- bipartisan language -- to establish standards for States issuing driver's licenses," according to Sen. Richard Durbin. After more than two years, the Department of Homeland Security issued draft regulations for state compliance on March 1, 2007.
Click to expand...


http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/

Is your state going along with this? I am against this government expenditure and bureaucracy. If our states don't go along with it, the feds won't let us board airplanes, and who knows what else....
 
First of all, I am glad to see that you posted this thread. I will be happy to respond to "YOUR" issues WHENyou post them (Rather than the opinions expressed by others.) In general, I think the objections to such a p;lan (if properly implemented) is "Much ado about nothing" and certainly would not be unconstitutonal. I also beleive that the majority of the objections to such a bill are superficial at best (or worst) and don't really hold water.
 
I don't really see the point to be honest. Each state has their own identification scheme, we all have to file taxes. I don't understand why they can't sync up each states drivers licenses/photo id systems to the Feds and call it a day.
 
LadyT said:
I don't really see the point to be honest. Each state has their own identification scheme, we all have to file taxes. I don't understand why they can't sync up each states drivers licenses/photo id systems to the Feds and call it a day.
Click to expand...
I fully agree, but there are those detrctors who beleive it is another disasterous step to the Police State. To me, it is simply coordination.
 
It's very expensive and most states main issue with it is that the Federal Government is making it mandatory for states to issue ID cards that can hold information about us like a credit card strip does, but the Feds aren't funding it. The States have to come up with the millions of dollars to pay for it.

And how much will it cost each of us?

I don't want the government to have all my personal information at their fingertips. What info will they have? My medical history, my financial history, my shopping history, my travel history, my education history, etc...

Do you trust the fools in the government with all of your personal information?
 
ViolaLee said:
It's very expensive and most states main issue with it is that the Federal Government is making it mandatory for states to issue ID cards that can hold information about us like a credit card strip does, but the Feds aren't funding it. The States have to come up with the millions of dollars to pay for it.

And how much will it cost each of us?

I don't want the government to have all my personal information at their fingertips. What info will they have? My medical history, my financial history, my shopping history, my travel history, my education history, etc...

Do you trust the fools in the government with all of your personal information?
Click to expand...
This is not about all the information you have listed here. It is only those things that Drivers licenses usually contain, plus positive ID Via Photo, and thumb-print. All states do not yet have this, but it has nothing to do with travel, or medical records unless you may find it desirable to include diabetic Status, etc.
 
doniston said:
This is not about all the information you have listed here. It is only those things that Drivers licenses usually contain, plus positive ID Via Photo, and thumb-print. All states do not yet have this, but it has nothing to do with travel, or medical records unless you may find it desirable to include diabetic Status, etc.
Click to expand...
When SS numbers were first created they said that they would never be used as any form of identification. They were wrong. In this case they say that this will never be used to track any of this information. I believe that they are incredibly wishful in their prognostication, just as they were with the SS numbers.
 
ViolaLee said:
It's very expensive and most states main issue with it is that the Federal Government is making it mandatory for states to issue ID cards that can hold information about us like a credit card strip does, but the Feds aren't funding it. The States have to come up with the millions of dollars to pay for it.

And how much will it cost each of us?

I don't want the government to have all my personal information at their fingertips. What info will they have? My medical history, my financial history, my shopping history, my travel history, my education history, etc...

Do you trust the fools in the government with all of your personal information?
Click to expand...

You are deluding yourself if you think they don't altready have all of the information they want. Which is pretty much what you described.
 
Damocles said:
When SS numbers were first created they said that they would never be used as any form of identification. They were wrong. In this case they say that this will never be used to track any of this information. I believe that they are incredibly wishful in their prognostication, just as they were with the SS numbers.
Click to expand...
I don't rexcall that being the case, but whatever, I think it is quite immaterial, in that the same information is required for most State ID and/or drivers licenses now, why do you think it would be any different with a universal, or co-ordinated card?
 
uscitizen said:
You are deluding yourself if you think they don't altready have all of the information they want. Which is pretty much what you described.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree, and I have come to believe that most objections are simply arguements against More government control, that would occur anyway, with or wthout these cards.

Lack of privacy in this issue is really a non-starter.

The Photo would definitely make false IDs much harder. and I would prefer that they be on Credit Cards as well.
 
doniston said:
I don't rexcall that being the case, but whatever, I think it is quite immaterial, in that the same information is required for most State ID and/or drivers licenses now, why do you think it would be any different with a universal, or co-ordinated card?
Click to expand...
You missed my point.

I think the universal card would be used to collect a massive amount of information that is not required for identification.

First it will be, well First responders need to know if you are allergic to penicillin, they'll hook that into your real id. They need to know what hospital to take you to. What insurance, whether it is payed up, if you can afford the care, blah, blah...

It will become one credit card of your entire life. I'd hate it, but it would be convenient.

My point was that I don't trust the government to stick with the "It's only an ID" promise. Pretty soon it will be your life.
 
Damocles said:
You missed my point.

I think the universal card would be used to collect a massive amount of information that is not required for identification.

First it will be, well First responders need to know if you are allergic to penicillin, they'll hook that into your real id. They need to know what hospital to take you to. What insurance, whether it is payed up, if you can afford the care, blah, blah...

It will become one credit card of your entire life. I'd hate it, but it would be convenient.

My point was that I don't trust the government to stick with the "It's only an ID" promise. Pretty soon it will be your life.
Click to expand...
No,I understood your point, I just disagree that this would be the vehicle to change it, especially if it was just a "Co-ordinated effort of all the states. They could already be doing that.

And while I do understand your concern, it could (at least temporarily) be restricted to certain specific information that is acttually required for Identification purposes
 
Damocles said:
You missed my point.

I think the universal card would be used to collect a massive amount of information that is not required for identification.

First it will be, well First responders need to know if you are allergic to penicillin, they'll hook that into your real id. They need to know what hospital to take you to. What insurance, whether it is payed up, if you can afford the care, blah, blah...

It will become one credit card of your entire life. I'd hate it, but it would be convenient.

My point was that I don't trust the government to stick with the "It's only an ID" promise. Pretty soon it will be your life.
Click to expand...

Private industry is now doing exactly what you fear Damo.
So what is your point ?
 
uscitizen said:
Private industry is now doing exactly what you fear Damo.
So what is your point ?
Click to expand...
They do not require me by law to carry it with me. That is my point. I believe that, over time, contrary to the promise of "identification purposes only" this will become what will be your chip.

As I said, it would be very convenient. However posting, as doniston did, that it is only for "identification purposes" because the government says so is ridiculous. Just as the SS number was never going to be for identification. People didn't want to be just a number....

It's a prediction.
 
I have watched a few specials on privacy and data collection.
Damo private industry is now doing what you fear. should they be able to do it and the govt not ?

And besides our govt is already doing it under the Patriot act.
 
uscitizen said:
I have watched a few specials on privacy and data collection.
Damo private industry is now doing what you fear. should they be able to do it and the govt not ?

And besides our govt is already doing it under the Patriot act.
Click to expand...
One more time. They do not require you to carry it on you by law. And there are ways to get around their inquisitiveness, entirely legally. The difference is in the choice.

And one more time. It was a prediction. I stated twice how convenient it would be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top