NCAA Football Championship playoffs

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I keep reading about the press to create a 4 team playoff in college football. I would prefer an 8 or 16 team playoff, but almost anything is better than what we have now.

The one thing that bothers me is the continued cries that it only be for those who win their conference championship.

Do we want the best teams in the playoff or not? Demanding that the teams be excluded if they did not win their conferences is eliminating some of the best teams.

If we had implemented this idea for the 2011 season, we would have had a 4 team playoff consisting of LSU, OK State, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Does anyone think the Badgers (finished the year at 11-3 & ranked 10th or 11th) was the 4th best team in the nation?
 
I keep reading about the press to create a 4 team playoff in college football. I would prefer an 8 or 16 team playoff, but almost anything is better than what we have now.

The one thing that bothers me is the continued cries that it only be for those who win their conference championship.

Do we want the best teams in the playoff or not? Demanding that the teams be excluded if they did not win their conferences is eliminating some of the best teams.

If we had implemented this idea for the 2011 season, we would have had a 4 team playoff consisting of LSU, OK State, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Does anyone think the Badgers (finished the year at 11-3 & ranked 10th or 11th) was the 4th best team in the nation?
Oh I get so TIRED of hearing this argument. Do you want a true NATIONAL championship or should we just eliminate a playoff all together and crown the SEC Championship game winner the national champion?

If it's going to be a true national championship and it's going to be limited to 8 games then screw the loosers who can't win their own conference. If OSU goes 10-1 and loses the Big 10 Championship game to michigan then tough shit Ohio State. You weren't good enough to be a national champion.

If you want to have a 16 team playoff then you can have your cake and eat it too. Lets assume that after conference consolidation there will be 8 conferences. That's 8 automatic bids for winning the conference and 8 at large. Get rid of the polls. Their worthless. For the 8 at large teams a selection committee, ala NCABB can chose the 8 at large teams.

This silly and subjective notion that a bunch of sports writters and talking heads know who the best teams are is a bunch of crap. It should all be about the conference!!! If you can't win your conference face the fact that you're probably not good enough to be a national champion.
 
I keep reading about the press to create a 4 team playoff in college football. I would prefer an 8 or 16 team playoff, but almost anything is better than what we have now.

The one thing that bothers me is the continued cries that it only be for those who win their conference championship.

Do we want the best teams in the playoff or not? Demanding that the teams be excluded if they did not win their conferences is eliminating some of the best teams.

If we had implemented this idea for the 2011 season, we would have had a 4 team playoff consisting of LSU, OK State, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Does anyone think the Badgers (finished the year at 11-3 & ranked 10th or 11th) was the 4th best team in the nation?
You can also make the same argument in pro sports. Some divisional wild card teams are obviously inferior to some Division winners. Take Pittsburgh for answer. Why should they have to play a wild card game when they were so obviously better than the AFC West Champion? That argument isn't logical.

The emphasizing winning your conference and coference traditions is THE ONLY way to go.
 
Oh I get so TIRED of hearing this argument. Do you want a true NATIONAL championship or should we just eliminate a playoff all together and crown the SEC Championship game winner the national champion?

If it's going to be a true national championship and it's going to be limited to 8 games then screw the loosers who can't win their own conference. If OSU goes 10-1 and loses the Big 10 Championship game to michigan then tough shit Ohio State. You weren't good enough to be a national champion.

If you want to have a 16 team playoff then you can have your cake and eat it too. Lets assume that after conference consolidation there will be 8 conferences. That's 8 automatic bids for winning the conference and 8 at large. Get rid of the polls. Their worthless. For the 8 at large teams a selection committee, ala NCABB can chose the 8 at large teams.

This silly and subjective notion that a bunch of sports writters and talking heads know who the best teams are is a bunch of crap. It should all be about the conference!!! If you can't win your conference face the fact that you're probably not good enough to be a national champion.

The conference championships are not part of the play-offs.

You cannot possibly make the claim that the conference champions for the Big East is consistently a better team than the 2nd or 3rd team in the SEC or Big 10. If you truly want to determine the best team in college football, then excluding the better teams is not the way to do it.

Or look at it this way, do you really believe Wisconsin at 11-2 was a better team than either Stanfor or Bama?
 
You can also make the same argument in pro sports. Some divisional wild card teams are obviously inferior to some Division winners. Take Pittsburgh for answer. Why should they have to play a wild card game when they were so obviously better than the AFC West Champion? That argument isn't logical.

The emphasizing winning your conference and coference traditions is THE ONLY way to go.

College football does not have anything near the parity of the NFL. I have no problem giving a conference champion a by-week, or homefield advantage. But excluding anyone except the conference champion will often exclude the better teams.
 
If you can't win your conference face the fact that you're probably not good enough to be a national champion.

But that certainly WASN'T the case this year. Alabama proved on the field, they were the best team in college football. Any argument to the contrary went down in flames on Jan. 9th in New Orleans. The only way it would be fair to only include conference champions, is if everyone had to play a CCG, including schools like Notre Dame, who aren't in a conference. How are you gonna pull that off?
 
The conference championships are not part of the play-offs.

You cannot possibly make the claim that the conference champions for the Big East is consistently a better team than the 2nd or 3rd team in the SEC or Big 10. If you truly want to determine the best team in college football, then excluding the better teams is not the way to do it.

Or look at it this way, do you really believe Wisconsin at 11-2 was a better team than either Stanfor or Bama?
THEN LET THEM GO PLAY FOR THE BIG EAST!!!! You're argument is based not only in a biased opinion but marginalizes conference play which is the well spring of tradition for college football. Things change with time. Right now the SEC is probably the top conference. Do you think it will always be that way? 50 years ago the Big East was one of the top conferences. In the 70's the Pac 10 was probaby the best conference and in the 60's the SEC was a mediocre conference because they refused to play black players or integrated teams. Things change and the conferences will be there representing their region. Any scheme that doesn't emphsize wining a conference championship as an automatic gateway into the national championship playoff would be a travesty and a joke. It would be little better then the "Championship by proxy" system we currently have. You can't decide who a "best team" is by opinion. That's the whole problem with the current system. In a conference championship system you do know one thing objectively. That conference champion is the best damned team in that conference and if the 2nd and 3rd place team in the SEC thinks they are better, well then can go play in that conference and good luck to them!
 
College football does not have anything near the parity of the NFL. I have no problem giving a conference champion a by-week, or homefield advantage. But excluding anyone except the conference champion will often exclude the better teams.
and I say tought shit. Win your conference or win an at large bid and quit your crybabying. There will almost certainly be times when the second best Big 10 Team will be better than some conference champions. Tough shit. Win your conference!! It's a national championship. Not the SEC or Big 10 Championship! A team that cant' win it's conference is obviously not the best team in the country and you can't tell if another team from another conference is a better team or not till you've actually played them. I mean who the hell wants to see another travesty like we had this year? I'm sure Alabama fans loved it. No one else gave a shit and it showed in the ratings.
 
But that certainly WASN'T the case this year. Alabama proved on the field, they were the best team in college football. Any argument to the contrary went down in flames on Jan. 9th in New Orleans. The only way it would be fair to only include conference champions, is if everyone had to play a CCG, including schools like Notre Dame, who aren't in a conference. How are you gonna pull that off?
No they didn't. They proved on one day that they weren't as good as LSU and on another day that they were better. It wasn't a true national championship game (though that certainly wasn't LSU or Bamas fault). You can't have a national championship game by proxy! I'm all for having a playoff that would have at large bids which would place the best non-conference champions into the tournament. That's why I'm all for a 16 team playoff.....but not at the expense of marginalizing the conferences. I say make it a 16 team playoff. Win you conference championship and your in automatically. Then fill the rest of the 16 team field with at large teams chosen by a selection committee and use the polls to seed the teams in the playoff.
 
No they didn't. They proved on one day that they weren't as good as LSU and on another day that they were better. It wasn't a true national championship game (though that certainly wasn't LSU or Bamas fault). You can't have a national championship game by proxy! I'm all for having a playoff that would have at large bids which would place the best non-conference champions into the tournament. That's why I'm all for a 16 team playoff.....but not at the expense of marginalizing the conferences. I say make it a 16 team playoff. Win you conference championship and your in automatically. Then fill the rest of the 16 team field with at large teams chosen by a selection committee and use the polls to seed the teams in the playoff.

Well if you are going to use the "any given Saturday" argument, then isn't that the case in EVERY football game and certainly ANY plaoff scenario? Doesn't that also mean that, if OK State hadn't choked and went on to play LSU and happened to beat them, it doesn't mean they are the best team in the country, because on another day, LSU might beat them? Hell.... oSu might be the best team in the country! On any given Saturday, they could have beaten any of the teams they lost to, and gone to the championship, which they could have won, on any given Saturday.... that's the argument you are depending on here.

Alabama played LSU to a tie in regulation, and if you look at game statistics, Alabama outplayed LSU in every aspect of the game, for the entire game, with the exception of one stat... field goals made. They ultimately lost in overtime on a field goal. But from a pure skilled "football-playing" standpoint, Alabama played the better game, despite the losing score. Keep in mind, it wasn't all that long ago, that game would have ended in a tie, as there was no "overtime" in college football. You can even make an argument that the overtime rules, as currently constructed, are patently unfair to a stronger defensive team, as the field is shortened to the advantage of the opposing offense. This 'theory' is actually supported in the result of the second match-up, where Bama's defense dominated the entire game.

Yes, we had a National Championship game, and Alabama took the crystal football home and printed up apparel with 14 National Championships on it... and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, except to spew sour grapes. The more you whine and moan and try to belittle the championship, it is recognized and will be recognized for all of football history. The way we determine a champion in the future might change, no doubt it certainly will change, and I'm not saying it won't be for the better, but it doesn't and won't erase the past history and traditions of college football, and there isn't anything you can say to make that so.

I think you are delusional if you believe we will ever see a 16-team playoff in our division of college football, it just ain't gonna happen realistically. About the ONLY possible way I could see it, would be if schools agreed to shorten the regular season by a few games, eliminating the non-cons, which isn't going to happen in some cases. There just isn't enough time to play out a 16-team bracket, and the universities are already bitching about the length of the football season. I do believe they are trying to corral most of the schools into super-conferences, so they can implement some kind of tie-in with a playoff, but I think an 8-team bracket is what will ultimately be the objective there. You would have 6 conference champs, and 2 at-large bids. The two at-large would be determined in a sort of 'wildcard' system the week of conference championships, with 4 teams who qualified. In that scenario, you'd actually have the top 12 teams eligible for the playoffs, pretty close to your delusion, actually.

Now... what I have heard we will have coming up, is a "Plus One" ...which means, the top 4 teams in the BCS rankings, will compete in two bowls, the winners will go to the extra (plus 1) game. It's better than what we had, and I believe it may be a 'stepping stone' to what is yet to come. I still think your idea of a 16-team playoff is a LONG way down the road, if it ever does happen at all.
 
THEN LET THEM GO PLAY FOR THE BIG EAST!!!! You're argument is based not only in a biased opinion but marginalizes conference play which is the well spring of tradition for college football. Things change with time. Right now the SEC is probably the top conference. Do you think it will always be that way? 50 years ago the Big East was one of the top conferences. In the 70's the Pac 10 was probaby the best conference and in the 60's the SEC was a mediocre conference because they refused to play black players or integrated teams. Things change and the conferences will be there representing their region. Any scheme that doesn't emphsize wining a conference championship as an automatic gateway into the national championship playoff would be a travesty and a joke. It would be little better then the "Championship by proxy" system we currently have. You can't decide who a "best team" is by opinion. That's the whole problem with the current system. In a conference championship system you do know one thing objectively. That conference champion is the best damned team in that conference and if the 2nd and 3rd place team in the SEC thinks they are better, well then can go play in that conference and good luck to them!

Yes, the Big East was a powerhouse back in the day and the SEC was a weaker conference. In fact, that adds validity to my argument. If you only take the conference champions, you eliminate some of the better teams while admitting the weaker ones.

Plus you eliminate the independents altogether. Are you saying Notre Dame will never again play for a national championship?
 
Yes, the Big East was a powerhouse back in the day and the SEC was a weaker conference. In fact, that adds validity to my argument. If you only take the conference champions, you eliminate some of the better teams while admitting the weaker ones.

Plus you eliminate the independents altogether. Are you saying Notre Dame will never again play for a national championship?
No, no, no, you're calling teams "better teams" based on opinion. Those so called "better" teams couldn't even win their own division. Why should they be give special privelage or consideration over teams who did win their conference? If those conferences are inferior then that will shake out in the playoff and we'd end with a true national champion. Not a travesty like we had this year. What your advocating is three or four SEC teams in the playoff because of your own personal bias and the opinion of some nitwit sports journalist who couldn't manage to get a real degree in college! A national championship sould represent all the best teams from their regions (conferences) in the country. Those who can't win an at large bid or their confernce, though shit, win your conference. That's as fair as it can get. What you're asking for is special treatment for the conference you favor. There's no way in hell a second place SEC team should bump a team that won it's conference championship ut of a playoff. That is the essence of unfair. The only way to have a true "NATIONAL" championship is the get the BCS and the pollsters completely out of the picture. Any championship based on opinion is a joke! WIN YOUR CONFERENCE! It's the only fair way and it's the only truly way that's representative nationally.

As for independents, unless there are at large bids in a play off I say screw them. They can join a conference. I have absolutely no sympathy for Notre Dame or any other team that thinks there so special they deserve special consideration. Get the opinion makers out of college football. I don't care who thinks what team is better. It's just an opinion and don't mean squat! Decide it on the field. Win Your Conference!!
 
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No, no, no, you're calling teams "better teams" based on opinion. Those so called "better" teams couldn't even win their own division. Why should they be give special privelage or consideration over teams who did win their conference? If those conferences are inferior then that will shake out in the playoff and we'd end with a true national champion. Not a travesty like we had this year. What your advocating is three or four SEC teams in the playoff because of your own personal bias and the opinion of some nitwit sports journalist who couldn't manage to get a real degree in college! A national championship sould represent all the best teams from their regions (conferences) in the country. Those who can't win an at large bid or their confernce, though shit, win your conference. That's as fair as it can get. What you're asking for is special treatment for the conference you favor. There's no way in hell a second place SEC team should bump a team that won it's conference championship ut of a playoff. That is the essence of unfair. The only way to have a true "NATIONAL" championship is the get the BCS and the pollsters completely out of the picture. Any championship based on opinion is a joke! WIN YOUR CONFERENCE! It's the only fair way and it's the only truly way that's representative nationally.

As for independents, unless there are at large bids in a play off I say screw them. They can join a conference. I have absolutely no sympathy for Notre Dame or any other team that thinks there so special they deserve special consideration. Get the opinion makers out of college football. I don't care who thinks what team is better. It's just an opinion and don't mean squat! Decide it on the field. Win Your Conference!!

Based on opinion? Come on, Mott. Are you telling me that winning the Big East should have the same weight as winning the SEC or Big 10?

The Big East has WVa, and thats about it.

Cincinati played Vandy in a bowl game and barely beat them. Thats VANDY. You know, the team that went 2-6 in the SEC?

The problem is, in my opinion, it will not be about who the best team is but about the conference championships. And that is fine if that is what you want. But if you are going to have a playoff, you need to have the best teams.

If you go strictly with the conference champions, you will pick teams with 2 or even 3 losses over teams with only a single loss.

And some conferences are not up to the level of other conferences. Are you saying that a championship should include one of the Conference USA teams (East Carolina, Houston, Marshall, Memphis, Rice, Southern Methodist, Southern Mississippi, Tulane, Tulsa, Alabama-Birmingham, Central Florida, and Texas-El Paso)?? Which of those would you pick over Alabama or Michigan State?

Last year Michigan State was 2nd in their conference. But you would have them left out for some MAC team?

I am not advocating for the SEC. I am advocating for the BEST team. A 16 team playoff would be great, and would eliminate this issue to a large degree. And I am all for giving conference champions a by-week or a top seed. But eliminating all but conference champions is nonsense.

In order to do that you have to claim all losses are the same. So a team losing in OT to the #1 team is the same as a team losing by 25 pts to the #1 team? Or a team losing in OT to a top ranked team is the same as being beaten badly by an unranked team?
 
There will always be some opinion used in selecting the champion. Unless you want them to play 2 games a week for the entire year, there has to be some way of selecting who is at the top and who is not.

Strength of schedule gives weight to the winning teams. But strength of schedule is based on opinion as well.
 
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