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klaatu

Fusionist
The Kennedy Myth ....

Bobby ... The Illusion ....

Grandson of Bootlegger
Son of a Wall Street jackal with ties to organized crime
Joseph Mccarthy prodigy
After his Brother wins the Presidency with assitance from Organized Crime leader Sam Giancana ... he goes after them full throttle and guess what? He probably gets his brother killed.

But somehow 40 years later he remains a Liberal Icon... why? My guess its because Liberals have a strange fascination with face value... needs to look and sound good....forget what lies underneath.

The candidate in 2008 for the Democratic Party will be the best speech maker..... this is why Obama is now in the lead.
 
Im surprised nobody has come to Bobby's defense! But lets further capsulate this liberal icons career .... try to figure out why he remains as one of the statues of lideral ideology.

As stated up front...he was born into priveledged conditions ...what the left wing of this country describe as "America's Royal Family" aside from the fact that the wealth was harnessed through suspect and/or corrupt means. He went to the best schools America had to offer ... his daddy used his pull to get him on Joe Mccarthy's commie hunting team, there he worked hand in hand with Joe Mccarthy and Roy Cohen. Later in the decade he can be seen as a member of the team that goes after Mccarthy .... One of Bobby's famous u-turns.
His brother wins the Presidency by a narrow margin (allegedly with assistance from Giancana as favor to old buddy Joe) and then He was appointed Attorny General by his Brother. He does another u-turn and decides to go full boar after Organized Crime .... nice move Bobby. He and his brother have this weird ongoing affair with Marilyn Monroe ..... and also her clouded death is littered with suspicious activites surrounding Bobby. His brother gets assisinated in decidedly Red State Texas where Joe Bonnano documents in his Bio the links to Organized Crime run amok ... Bonnano says that Dallas was the perfect location for the Mob to do their dirty work with full cooperation from the Kennedy hating locals.
After JFK's assisination Bobby goes on to serve under LBJ for 9 mos. These two never did get along ...but to LBJ's credit he pushes many innitiatives that begat under the JFK's administration....later to be known as the LBJ great society and also the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Another initiative that heated up under the JFK Administration was the VietNam Conflict ...although advisors were sent there as early as the mid 50's .... The US began to send large number of Troops in the very early 60's .... The US involvement was sealed under JFK and ill advisedly escalated under LBJ .....
In a classic Bobby Kennedy Move .... just as he did when he turned his back on Mccarthy and then Giancanna .....he decides to carpet bag his Senate sevices to New York State and set himself up as a candidate for the Presidency by running against LBJ in the primary. Now remember this, LBJ pushed many of JFK's innitiatives, was handed the involvement into Vietnam.
But Bobby does yet another u-turn and turns his back on LBJ and the Moderate wing of the Democratic Party. This is where Bobby's great Civil Rights Legacy takes root ..... Bobby does a majority of his campaigning in the poorer districts of America's major districts.... on the eve of Martin Luther King Jrs. assisination ...Bobby bravely goes into an African American Community and delivers an I feel your pain speech... a dramatic move ..... he wins the hearts and minds of this community and immediately is recognized as a great civil rights leader .....

But..when all is said and done... Bobby did one to many u-turns .... made to many enemies and subsequently shot down in a Hotel Lobby while celebrating his primary victory in California.
 
Jeez - what an absurd post. Where did you get that stuff - one of the blogs that is still hung up on Vince Foster's murder?

I'm never inclined to judge someone by what their father has done (it reminds me of Hannity constantly bashing Gore for this father's racism, as though we can't rise above our parents' behavior). I'm also not inclined to judge anyone in public life based on what they do with their personal, private life (affair with Marilyn - gasp!) "Carpetbagging" means very little to me, unless I'm a direct consitituent of the politician who has done the carpetbagging, and even then it doesn't bother me as long as that politician represents my district/state well.

Most of the other stuff you write is just hearsay & exaggeration that we have heard throughout the years, but has little basis in fact. It's also been given a rather extreme negative slant. While I agree that someone like JFK has been unjustifiably mythologized, I am not down with an unsubstantiated, mudslinging attack on Bobby....
 
Onceler said:
Jeez - what an absurd post. Where did you get that stuff - one of the blogs that is still hung up on Vince Foster's murder?

I'm never inclined to judge someone by what their father has done (it reminds me of Hannity constantly bashing Gore for this father's racism, as though we can't rise above our parents' behavior). I'm also not inclined to judge anyone in public life based on what they do with their personal, private life (affair with Marilyn - gasp!) "Carpetbagging" means very little to me, unless I'm a direct consitituent of the politician who has done the carpetbagging, and even then it doesn't bother me as long as that politician represents my district/state well.

Most of the other stuff you write is just hearsay & exaggeration that we have heard throughout the years, but has little basis in fact. It's also been given a rather extreme negative slant. While I agree that someone like JFK has been unjustifiably mythologized, I am not down with an unsubstantiated, mudslinging attack on Bobby....
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Whats not true ...? That Joes influence got Bobby on the Mccarthy Team? That Joe had ties with Giancanna? That Bobby went after the very people that helped elect his Brother? That LBJ coninued the work that JFK set out to do .... Civil rights, NASA and VietNam...
That Bobby had a continuous battle with his own Demons ...... the U-turns are real ...Bobbby Kennedy's iconic legacy is littered with contradictions ....

By the way...its funny how you mention Hannity bashing Gore .... Im sure you never bashed Bush jr. because of Bush the Elder ....
 
Onceler said:
Wrong again. I liked Bush the Elder. Still do. Dubya's stupidity & incompetence really stand on their own.
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When you say wrong "again"...you need to back up your statements as to why one is wrong in the first place. You cant get away with ..just because. .... thats what you choose to believe. You obviously view Bobby in a favorable light despite the contradictions....
Name one thing Bobby accomplished to become so canonized as a Champion of civil rights? He was a Senator for a couple of years..., he merely used the seat to run for President. Again ...the pattern of service is well documented....... Used Mccarthy..turned on him, Used Giancanna ...turned on him, Used LBJ....turned on him, Used the Senate seat from New York.
And I dont buy into the what the person does in his or her personal life should not reflect what they do in public office .... thats poppycock..... what one really means when they say this...is how broad one's moral compass may or may not spread out. When the Kennedy Brothers were gang banging Marilyn Monroe... well it may not bother you...but most people may have a problem with this sort of behavior ... especially when its your President and the US Attorney General.., on the other hand... I tend to think that gang banging Marilyn Monroe in the years late 50's-62 may pose serious consquences to ones political career.... thus it is easy to read in between the lines when the stakes are so high. It is also easy to trace Marilyns behavior during the height of the affairs with Jack and Bobby.... she was becoming irrational and loud... not a good thing for the President. You do the math.
 
I think Bobby had a lot of promise, but was killed much too early in his political career to make any sort of lasting judgments about him.

Regardless of what I believe, I can't help but hold contempt for unfair, one-sided slants like the one you posted about him, that exaggerates the negative & contains what I see has "forced" contradictions (in other words, starting with the idea that Bobby consistently contradicted himself & then trying to fit the events of his life into that pre-conceived notion). Did Bobby personally broker a deal with Giancanna, or are you (again) using only an association with a family member & extending that to him?

You wrote a slam piece on him above. It's completely biased & one-sided...it's partisan hackery at its best. Are there SOME elements of truth to the portrayal? Barely. You should try objectivity if you really want to have a credible, thoughtful discussion on the what the Kennedy legacy should & shouldn't be.
 
Name one thing Bobby accomplished to become so canonized as a Champion of civil rights? He was a Senator for a couple of years...,

Well your facts are wrong here, so it calls into question the rest of your assertions.

Kennedy was senator for four years (not "a couple"), he was Attorney General of the United States prior to that, and he was the U.S. Senate's chief counsel in the 1950s.


Name one thing Bobby accomplished to become so canonized as a Champion of civil rights?

You might want to pick up your old high school history book. As Attorney general, RFK sent federal troops into to desegreate southern public universities, and oversaw the most widespread desgregation of the federal government seen prior to then. Even criticizing LBJ for not hiring enough minorities. Its easy to understand why he was admired by the black community.

Was he a perfect man? No.
 
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"He was appointed Attorny General by his Brother. He does another u-turn and decides to go full boar after Organized Crime "

I just checked, and apparently Bobby was on the Labor Rackets Committee in the late '50's, where he was vocal & passionate about organized crime's influence on the teamsters, and had a memorable exchange with Jimmy Hoffa during one of his testimonies.

And you contend that he just "decided" to go after organized crime, AFTER the '60 election? And that this was somehow a "u-turn"?

Do some research....try to get your facts straight, and try to be more objective....
 
It is not UNFAIR to point out someones flaws. The orginal post is accurate in the Kennedys are icons without real merit in being so, the best thing they did to uphold this was being killed.
 
Cypress said:
Name one thing Bobby accomplished to become so canonized as a Champion of civil rights? He was a Senator for a couple of years...,

Well your facts are wrong here, so it calls into question the rest of your assertions.

Kennedy was senator for four years (not "a couple"), he was Attorney General of the United States prior to that, and he was the U.S. Senate's chief counsel in the 1950s.


Name one thing Bobby accomplished to become so canonized as a Champion of civil rights?

You might want to pick up your old high school history book. As Attorney general, RFK sent federal troops into to desegreate southern public universities, and oversaw the most widespread desgregation of the federal government seen prior to then. Even criticizing LBJ for not hiring enough minorities. Its easy to understand why he was admired by the black community.

Was he a perfect man? No.
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Bobby was a Senator for a couple of years and a candidate for President the rest of the time.. in fact he was a candidate the whole time .. thus the reason for becoming a Senator in the first place ......

"RFK" the The Attorny General worked for JFK and LBJ the Presidents .... and he did his job by upholding the desegregation law that was passed under Eisenhower.... pick up your history book.....
 
Onceler said:
"He was appointed Attorny General by his Brother. He does another u-turn and decides to go full boar after Organized Crime "

I just checked, and apparently Bobby was on the Labor Rackets Committee in the late '50's, where he was vocal & passionate about organized crime's influence on the teamsters, and had a memorable exchange with Jimmy Hoffa during one of his testimonies.

And you contend that he just "decided" to go after organized crime, AFTER the '60 election? And that this was somehow a "u-turn"?

Do some research....try to get your facts straight, and try to be more objective....
Click to expand...

He was also on Joe Mccarthy's Commi Hunting team in the 50's....
Kennedy's personal war with Jimmy Hoffa is well documented and nothing new.
 
As a matter of fact.., Kennedy made a fool out of himself during the Hoffa hearings when accused Hoffa of having Commi ties.... Hoffa ripped Kennedy a new asshole.
 
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