People are so retarded that they don't realize that Socialism...

[AProudLefty]

...requires work.

Thank you very much. Be sure to tip your waitresses.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

...requires work.

Thank you very much. Be sure to tip your waitresses.

No, it doesn't, it requires obedience. If you are complaint you get your monthly, weakly, whatever check from the government to pay for things. In fact, Socialism discourages work outside of the Black Market and on the side where it isn't reported to the government. It also encourages theft from the company (eg., government) to supplement your pitiful income.

 

[AProudLefty]

No, it doesn't, it requires obedience. If you are complaint you get your monthly, weakly, whatever check from the government to pay for things. In fact, Socialism discourages work outside of the Black Market and on the side where it isn't reported to the government. It also encourages theft from the company (eg., government) to supplement your pitiful income.

Obedience to who? And whose "pitiful income"?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Obedience to who? And whose "pitiful income"?

Your alien masters in government.

 

[AProudLefty]

Your alien masters in government.

Your silly joke aside, will you answer?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Your silly joke aside, will you answer?

While I was being flippant, I was being equally serious. Government has the power to coerce and force compliance, an individual in society doesn't. In a true socialist society you get what the government decides you should have, and that's it.

 

[AProudLefty]

While I was being flippant, I was being equally serious. Government has the power to coerce and force compliance, an individual in society doesn't. In a true socialist society you get what the government decides you should have, and that's it.

Yes it does have the power. Still doesn't answer my questions.

And no the government does not get to decide what you should have in a socialist country. Socialism is voluntary.

A good example would be Native American communities. They are as socialist as you can get. Everyone has duties. Everyone helps each other

BTW you pay taxes? That's government forcing you to pay for socialist programs such as highways, public roads, bridges, police, fire dept, EMT, traffic officers and so on and on. So basically you should be living off the grid if you're complaining about that.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Yes it does have the power. Still doesn't answer my questions.

And no the government does not get to decide what you should have in a socialist country. Socialism is voluntary.

Bullshit. Let's take Venezuela, the latest failure in socialism

Venezuelan bakers arrested for making brownies instead of bread

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-39302506

Flour is rationed by the government to bakers in Venezuela because the government can't import enough and it is too expensive to buy privately--not to mention the government banned that.
Bread prices are controlled by the government, and the price is below the cost of production.
Bakers chose to make pastries and other non-bread items rather than bread.
The government stepped in and started arresting bakery owners and confiscating their shops because they wouldn't make bread.
The government then appointed politically reliable persons with no knowledge of baking to run them.
There is a massive shortage of bread in Venezuela...

If you are poor in Venezuela (now something like 90% of the population) you are eligible to get the CLAP. That is, a food box from the government.

You can get one a week or so apart depending on your loyalty to the regime and local political operatives. The contents vary widely based on what the government can afford, what's available, and how connected you are.

A good example would be Native American communities. They are as socialist as you can get. Everyone has duties. Everyone helps each other

Yea, sure. On the White Mountain Apache res, everyone over 15 gets a big check from casino earnings every 6 months. The teenagers go out and buy a new vehicle and then spend the rest on drugs and booze. They usually wreck the vehicle. They also tend to drop out of school because they're, in their eyes, rich.
Being given a nice government house means you know when you trash it, they'll give you another. Drive through one of the res'es like I do fairly regularly (in my case the Gila River Res and Sacaton) to see that the towns are low rent slums with trashed homes, buildings covered in graffiti, and basically major crime zones.
The Native Americans don't help each other. The tribal leaders are usually corrupt and greedy politicians who don't give a flying fuck about "their people" while the other 90% of the tribe lives in abject poverty most of the time.

BTW you pay taxes? That's government forcing you to pay for socialist programs such as highways, public roads, bridges, police, fire dept, EMT, traffic officers and so on and on. So basically you should be living off the grid if you're complaining about that.

Those aren't socialist programs. They don't benefit specific individuals at the expense of others. Socialist programs are things like welfare, WIC, Earned Income Credit, and the like. There are many rural places where things like fire and ambulance services are privately operated and paid for by subscription.

The South Fulton Fire Department made national news last year after they refused to put out a house fire due to an unpaid fire subscription fee, and it appears that policy has not changed.

Homeowner Vicky Bell watched her home burn to the ground on Monday while firefighters stood behind her looking on, according to WPSD-TV.

While the city provides fire service free of charge to its residents, it requires an annual $75 fee for homeowners who live in unincorporated areas of Obion County -- which doesn't have its own fire department.

https://www.firehouse.com/operation...ssee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again

This is where you need to be aware of things and pay your fair share for a service. That isn't socialism where money is taken from some and given to others. A fee for service is not socialism. So, fire, police, sheriff, EMT, and like services are not socialism.

 

[AProudLefty]

Bullshit. Let's take Venezuela, the latest failure in socialism


https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-39302506

Flour is rationed by the government to bakers in Venezuela because the government can't import enough and it is too expensive to buy privately--not to mention the government banned that.
Bread prices are controlled by the government, and the price is below the cost of production.
Bakers chose to make pastries and other non-bread items rather than bread.
The government stepped in and started arresting bakery owners and confiscating their shops because they wouldn't make bread.
The government then appointed politically reliable persons with no knowledge of baking to run them.
There is a massive shortage of bread in Venezuela...

If you are poor in Venezuela (now something like 90% of the population) you are eligible to get the CLAP. That is, a food box from the government.

You can get one a week or so apart depending on your loyalty to the regime and local political operatives. The contents vary widely based on what the government can afford, what's available, and how connected you are.



Yea, sure. On the White Mountain Apache res, everyone over 15 gets a big check from casino earnings every 6 months. The teenagers go out and buy a new vehicle and then spend the rest on drugs and booze. They usually wreck the vehicle. They also tend to drop out of school because they're, in their eyes, rich.
Being given a nice government house means you know when you trash it, they'll give you another. Drive through one of the res'es like I do fairly regularly (in my case the Gila River Res and Sacaton) to see that the towns are low rent slums with trashed homes, buildings covered in graffiti, and basically major crime zones.
The Native Americans don't help each other. The tribal leaders are usually corrupt and greedy politicians who don't give a flying fuck about "their people" while the other 90% of the tribe lives in abject poverty most of the time.



Those aren't socialist programs. They don't benefit specific individuals at the expense of others. Socialist programs are things like welfare, WIC, Earned Income Credit, and the like. There are many rural places where things like fire and ambulance services are privately operated and paid for by subscription.


https://www.firehouse.com/operation...ssee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again

This is where you need to be aware of things and pay your fair share for a service. That isn't socialism where money is taken from some and given to others. A fee for service is not socialism. So, fire, police, sheriff, EMT, and like services are not socialism.

That isn't socialism. That is corruption.

You might never need fire, police, sheriff, EMT, etc. and yet you are forced to pay for them. Same with public schools. You do not need to attend there and yet you are forced to pay for them.

 

[Life is Golden]

Socialism is a stone's throw away from Communism.

 

[AProudLefty]

Socialism is a stone's throw away from Communism.

Unfettered Capitalism is a stone's throw away from Fascism.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That isn't socialism. That is corruption.

No, that is socialism and yes, it always--ALWAYS--leads to massive corruption.

You might never need fire, police, sheriff, EMT, etc. and yet you are forced to pay for them. Same with public schools. You do not need to attend there and yet you are forced to pay for them.

I might never need insurance either and I pay for that. Public schools varies by state. Arizona has one of the largest voucher systems in the US and it also allows those that owe state taxes to take a donation to any school, public or private, to avoid paying them. I ought to know on that last as I end up doing that every year ( I never can accurately estimate what my state payment will be).

 

[AProudLefty]

No, that is socialism and yes, it always--ALWAYS--leads to massive corruption.

So does unfettered Capitalism.

Fun fact: the "Communism" in USSR wasn't what Karl Marx had envisioned.

I might never need insurance either and I pay for that. Public schools varies by state. Arizona has one of the largest voucher systems in the US and it also allows those that owe state taxes to take a donation to any school, public or private, to avoid paying them. I ought to know on that last as I end up doing that every year ( I never can accurately estimate what my state payment will be).

Insurance is a requirement.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So does unfettered Capitalism.

Fun fact: the "Communism" in USSR wasn't what Karl Marx had envisioned.

Unfettered capitalism leads to anarchy. That's different from the totalitarian corruption that results from socialism.

Insurance is a requirement.

Again, because of government interference, but not because of socialism.

 

[AProudLefty]

Unfettered capitalism leads to anarchy.

That's a new one. Explain.

Again, because of government interference, but not because of socialism.

You are the one who complained about the government interference.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That's a new one. Explain.

The classic unfettered capitalism situation is the black market. There are no rules governing its operation. It is totally buyer beware. What's new about that.

You are the one who complained about the government interference.

Some government interference in the market is good. That is, the government acts as a referee and makes sure the market is safe (you can't sell what amounts to poison for example), fair (like weights and standards), and that sort of thing.
Where you don't want government is picking winners and losers. You don't want government regulating something out of existence in favor of other things. For example, right now battery cars. That is bad government in the marketplace.

 

[AProudLefty]

The classic unfettered capitalism situation is the black market. There are no rules governing its operation. It is totally buyer beware. What's new about that.

The Laissez-Faire Capitalism is the black market?

Some government interference in the market is good. That is, the government acts as a referee and makes sure the market is safe (you can't sell what amounts to poison for example), fair (like weights and standards), and that sort of thing.
Where you don't want government is picking winners and losers. You don't want government regulating something out of existence in favor of other things. For example, right now battery cars. That is bad government in the marketplace.

There are no winners in Socialism. Only in Capitalism.

The economy in the USA is mixed with Capitalism being a primary economic drive.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The Laissez-Faire Capitalism is the black market?

In essence, yes.

There are no winners in Socialism. Only in Capitalism.

Correct.

The economy in the USA is mixed with Capitalism being a primary economic drive.

Correct also. As we add more Socialism, the economy will increasingly fail.

 

[AProudLefty]

In essence, yes.

So America has been in black market up till maybe 1850 to 1900?

Correct.

I am surprised you'd agree with me. Well that's progress.

Correct also. As we add more Socialism, the economy will increasingly fail.

Nobody is adding more Socialism, whatever that means.

Welfare, SS, Medicare and such have not destroyed America.

 

[Trumpet]

No, it doesn't, it requires obedience. If you are complaint you get your monthly, weakly, whatever check from the government to pay for things. In fact, Socialism discourages work outside of the Black Market and on the side where it isn't reported to the government. It also encourages theft from the company (eg., government) to supplement your pitiful income.

Who ever brain washed you did a good job.