Question for Catholics

[IBDaMann]

Why is the Catholic church so adamant that its congregation of Catholics not have anything to do with Freemasons? What is so incompatible about Freemasons and Catholicism? I have poured over the Bible and there is no commandment "Thou shalt not be a Shriner." Jesus did not say "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the Freemasons are: for they advocate Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth" (in fact, Jesus advocated for all of these).

The Catholic Church gave Biden a rash of shit (threatened excommunication) for joining a Freemason organization, and now Ghana is a surging hotbed of anti-Freemason bigotry.

Why? I know Catholics who are Freemasons and there is absolutely no conflict whatsoever. Help me understand.

 

[AProudLefty]

It's the secrecy.

Historically, one of Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity.

What Does the Church Say about Freemasonry?

What is the Catholic Church's official position on Freemasonry? Are Catholics free to become Freemasons? Click here to read the answers.

www.catholic.com

 

[AProudLefty]

@Grok sez

The Catholic Church's stance against Freemasonry has historical, theological, and doctrinal roots that have evolved over centuries. Here are some key reasons:

1. Theological Incompatibilities:
   • Secrecy and Oaths: Freemasonry requires oaths of secrecy which the Catholic Church views as conflicting with the Christian duty to speak truth openly. The Church traditionally disapproves of secret societies because they can obscure one's moral responsibilities and religious commitments.
2. Deistic vs. Christian Beliefs:
   • Freemasonry promotes a form of deism or theistic belief where a Supreme Being is acknowledged but not necessarily in the Trinitarian Christian sense. This universalist approach to religion does not align with the specific doctrines of the Catholic Church, which emphasizes Jesus Christ's role as the sole mediator between God and humanity.
3. Religious Indifferentism:
   • Freemasonry historically has been accused of promoting religious indifferentism, the idea that one religion is as good as another, which contradicts the Catholic belief in the unique truth of Christianity and the Church's role as the guardian of that truth.
4. Historical Conflicts:
   • Over centuries, there have been numerous political and social conflicts between Masonic lodges and Catholic authorities, particularly in Europe. For instance, during the Enlightenment, Freemasonry was seen as part of a broader movement against traditional religious and monarchical structures, which the Church viewed as threats to its influence.
5. Papal Condemnations:
   • The Church has issued several papal bulls and encyclicals against Freemasonry. The most notable include:
     • In eminenti apostolatus (Pope Clement XII, 1738), the first papal condemnation.
     • Humanum Genus (Pope Leo XIII, 1884), which explicitly condemned Freemasonry for its perceived naturalism and religious indifferentism.
6. Canonical Law:
   • The Code of Canon Law (1983) states in canon 1374 that "a person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict."
7. Modern Interpretations:
   • While the explicit prohibitions have somewhat softened in practice, with the focus more on the secrecy and the potential for conflict with Catholic doctrine rather than individual membership, the fundamental theological objections remain. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) reaffirmed in 1983 that Catholics who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

This tension reflects deep-seated differences in worldview, authority, and religious practice between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry, leading to an enduring opposition. However, individual experiences can vary, and in some countries, there's less overt conflict between the two groups, but the official stance of the Church remains largely unchanged.

 

[Into the Night]

Why is the Catholic church so adamant that its congregation of Catholics not have anything to do with Freemasons? What is so incompatible about Freemasons and Catholicism? I have poured over the Bible and there is no commandment "Thou shalt not be a Shriner." Jesus did not say "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the Freemasons are: for they advocate Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth" (in fact, Jesus advocated for all of these).

The Catholic Church gave Biden a rash of shit (threatened excommunication) for joining a Freemason organization, and now Ghana is a surging hotbed of anti-Freemason bigotry.

Why? I know Catholics who are Freemasons and there is absolutely no conflict whatsoever. Help me understand.

View attachment 41882

You are quite correct about Freemasons. The biggest reason for the conflict, as far as I can determine, is that the Catholic Church feels their power base is threatened by Freemasonry.

There is a general attack against Christianity around the world. Freemasons are certainly not immune from these attacks.

 

[Into the Night]

It's the secrecy.

Historically, one of Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity.

What Does the Church Say about Freemasonry?

What is the Catholic Church's official position on Freemasonry? Are Catholics free to become Freemasons? Click here to read the answers.

www.catholic.com

Freemasonry never counseled the destruction of the Catholic Church, Sybil. The Catholic Church HAS counseled the destruction of Freemasonry, however.

 

[Into the Night]

@Grok sez

The Catholic Church's stance against Freemasonry has historical, theological, and doctrinal roots that have evolved over centuries. Here are some key reasons:

So?

1. Theological Incompatibilities:
   • Secrecy and Oaths: Freemasonry requires oaths of secrecy which the Catholic Church views as conflicting with the Christian duty to speak truth openly. The Church traditionally disapproves of secret societies because they can obscure one's moral responsibilities and religious commitments.

The Catholic Church ALSO requires oaths of secrecy. I guess you weren't aware of that.

1. Deistic vs. Christian Beliefs:
   • Freemasonry promotes a form of deism or theistic belief where a Supreme Being is acknowledged but not necessarily in the Trinitarian Christian sense. This universalist approach to religion does not align with the specific doctrines of the Catholic Church, which emphasizes Jesus Christ's role as the sole mediator between God and humanity.

I find this odd, since Catholics use the Cross as a symbol of the death of Jesus Christ, but use no symbol to represent His resurrection. I find Easter for many Catholics celebrates bunnies and eggs more than anything to do with Jesus Christ and what He did for the world and everyone in it.

Freemasons currently acknowledge a God, but does not specify or force a particular god on any of it's members, other than to encourage God the Father. It is somewhat agnostic in this matter, but it DOES encourage belief in the same God worshiped by the Catholic Church.

1. Religious Indifferentism:
   • Freemasonry historically has been accused of promoting religious indifferentism, the idea that one religion is as good as another, which contradicts the Catholic belief in the unique truth of Christianity and the Church's role as the guardian of that truth.

This is the threat to the Catholic Church power base I mentioned.

1. Historical Conflicts:
   • Over centuries, there have been numerous political and social conflicts between Masonic lodges and Catholic authorities, particularly in Europe. For instance, during the Enlightenment, Freemasonry was seen as part of a broader movement against traditional religious and monarchical structures, which the Church viewed as threats to its influence.

Again, this is that threat to the Catholic Church power base I mentioned. Their hatred of the Freemasons has more to do with politics than anything else.

1. Papal Condemnations:
   • The Church has issued several papal bulls and encyclicals against Freemasonry. The most notable include:
     • In eminenti apostolatus (Pope Clement XII, 1738), the first papal condemnation.
     • Humanum Genus (Pope Leo XIII, 1884), which explicitly condemned Freemasonry for its perceived naturalism and religious indifferentism.

Okay. Let's examine the Pope as an office for a moment.

The Pope that once denied Galileo's falsification of the Aristotelian Universe (even though Aristotle himself was Greek and rejected the wackiness of the Catholic Church.
The Pope that started the Inquisition.
The Pope that once tried to hide the sexual child abuse by bishops.
The Pope that supports the Church of Global Warming.

1. Canonical Law:
   • The Code of Canon Law (1983) states in canon 1374 that "a person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict."

The Freemasons don't plot against the Catholic Church and never have.

1. Modern Interpretations:
   • While the explicit prohibitions have somewhat softened in practice, with the focus more on the secrecy and the potential for conflict with Catholic doctrine rather than individual membership, the fundamental theological objections remain. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) reaffirmed in 1983 that Catholics who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

Meh. This is again power of that threat to the Catholic churches powerbase. This is politics again. It's no different than threatening Galileo with torture and then putting under house arrest because he discovered that Aristotle was wrong.

This tension reflects deep-seated differences in worldview, authority, and religious practice between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry, leading to an enduring opposition. However, individual experiences can vary, and in some countries, there's less overt conflict between the two groups, but the official stance of the Church remains largely unchanged.

Oddly enough, it is NOT the stance of God or Jesus Christ! While the doctrine of God and Jesus Christ remain unchanged, the Catholic Church HAS changed quite a lot through the years, though are still more about officiousness and condemnation than anything else; definitely NOT part of any doctrine of God or Jesus Christ.

I am not a Freemason. I am not a Catholic. I do, understand, however, the history of both. The 'secrets' of the Freemasons has long ago been leaked. It's no longer a secret.