Reagan Made America Hate Government. And Thus, He Made Americans Hate Themselves.

[PoliTalker]

If you hate government, you are hating part of yourself.

Because government is us. We make our own government. The USA is a self-governed nation.

Government is not the enemy. We don't need to kill government or fight government.

If we don't like our government, we have the power to fix it.

So if our government is not working for us it is really our own fault.

Government hatred is self hatred. ... Just my opinion. (And of course we all know what that is worth.)

Reagan capitalized on hating government because he was the one to come right out and call government 'the problem.' Total spin, and totally incorrect. What a dangerous thing to say. Foolish. Loose lips like that sink ships like maybe this great ship of State, the USA. He fooled a lot of people with that one. He capitalized on emotions. It was an irresponsible thing to say. Terribly irresponsible.

He did the USA a great and vast disservice by popularizing that phrase. He made it cool to hate government. Which is not cool, and never was.

And that was a despicable shame.

No. Government is not the problem.

Government is what we, the people, make it. We built that! Nobody else did it. We did it. We have a government that was put together one piece at a time on our watch. We could have risen up and objected loudly and in unison at any point. Our leaders would be forced to listen if only enough of us were to make our voices heard.

And that could still happen. But time and time again we give in to what big money wants. A health care law that rips us off and puts tons of cash into the insurance industry, big pharma, and the health care industry. What else does big money want? Lower taxes, fewer regulations, no inheritance tax for super-rich fortune-builders, low taxes on investment income. Always with the promise that it will trickle down.

And always it makes the rich richer and the rest left further behind. /sarc: (Hey! Let's just let that go on forever! Yeehaw! Here. Hold my beer. Watch this! What could possibly go wrong?) /

If the rich want it, you can bet it's probably not good for anybody else.

If we choose to be apathetic and let the rich have their way (like 99% of Americans) then we get whatever the greedy rich want. A populace who thinks government is the problem.

A bought off government that serves the super-rich, runs itself into massive debt as the super-rich highest earners enjoy tax-cuts. And the people blame the government, not the ones who bought it off!

A government that serves the greediest ultra-wealthy elite, and lets them do whatever they want.

And you know what that means.

Take a wild guess.

Oh, why don't I just blurt it out.

Extracting our wealth.

That's what very rich greedy people do. They want to get as much wealth as they can, and they figure the way to do that is suck in as much as they can from you and me. And it sure works great to have government in your back pocket to do that.

PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

No.

Government is not the problem.

It is the apathetic people who let the rich greedy people do their darnedest.

And it's frustrating.

Because you know, if we could just get all these people educated to the point that they understand and grasp the importance of being well informed and actively engaged in being a citizen of the USA and living up to your civic duty of monitoring government and communicating regularly with your representative and voting from a knowledgeable position,,,

if we could just do that,

then all the money in the world would not buy these rich greedy people much influence at all with government. Because government would know the voters would not have it.

And then we could have a government we understand and are satisfied with.

And we would know better than to listen to anybody who tries to say government is the problem.

 

[PoliTalker]

Reagan made America hate again.

 

[Evmetro]

Government is not the enemy. We don't need to kill government or fight government.

The government is not your friend, it is a necessary evil that we need to keep as small as possible. Hungry people make a strong government, hungry government makes strong people.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Evmetro,

The government is not your friend, it is a necessary evil that we need to keep as small as possible. Hungry people make a strong government, hungry government makes strong people.

Government is what we make it. And you are wrong about trying to have the smallest government possible. The Constitution doesn't say that. It says we will promote the general welfare.

 

[Evmetro]

Hello Evmetro,



Government is what we make it.

Indeed. Hungry people make a strong government, hungry government makes strong people. We should "make" a hungry government and strong people.

 

[PoliTalker]

Indeed. Hungry people make a strong government, hungry government makes strong people. We should "make" a hungry government and strong people.

Pardon me, but that's dumb.

That's like giving up.

Everybody should be without.

What a dumb plan.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Didn't you claim on another thread that government doesn't support labor and the common man because it is controlled by the rich and powerful? That sentiment doesn't sound like one in which the government is an extension of the people.

 

[Evmetro]

.

Everybody should be without.

Everybody should be all they can be, not all they can take. The only reason why lefties want big gubmint is so that the gubmint can redistribute from the productive to those who want big gubmint.

 

[PoliTalker]

Good morning 3D,

Didn't you claim on another thread that government doesn't support labor and the common man because it is controlled by the rich and powerful? That sentiment doesn't sound like one in which the government is an extension of the people.

If you can find the quote I can elaborate. Government feigns to support the common man only enough to placate. Obviously the skids are greased for the super-rich who have been sliding into massive wealth at the same time our nation slides into massive debt, both student and federal, with most of American living paycheck to paycheck. That's the big picture.

 

[PoliTalker]

Everybody should be all they can be, not all they can take. The only reason why lefties want big gubmint is so that the gubmint can redistribute from the productive to those who want big gubmint.

As opposed to the capitalists controlling government to redistribute the wealth of human capital from those who do the labor to those who employ them?

 

[Evmetro]

As opposed to the capitalists controlling government to redistribute the wealth of human capital from those who do the labor to those who employ them?

I remember feeling like my labor was being exploited when I was learning my trade. I remember complaining to my employer and asking for more money, and being turned down. What I did was shop around for a new employer, and I was soon working for an employer and a wage that I was happy with. I began to appreciate capitalism, but as time went on, I again was dissatisfied. I moved to higher paying jobs many times, until I got to a point where nobody would pay more than I was already getting. The only way I could see was to become the employer myself, and thank goodness for capitalism! Nothing was stopping me from opening my own business, so I used all the career knowledge that all my employers paid for over the years and did it. Capitalism is beautiful!

 

[Nordberg]

The government is not your friend, it is a necessary evil that we need to keep as small as possible. Hungry people make a strong government, hungry government makes strong people.

There is no friend relationship with institutions. Is your bank or grocery store your friend. That's not the term to describe a relationship with something that is not human. So dispense with that. The relationship is how the agencies have been crafted to serve the people and make their lives better. That is surely not inimical. Call the IRS and ask for tax help and you will derive a clear and thorough help. The EPA is designed to help keep the air ,land and water cleaner. It is friendly only if you use water, breathe or do not want to be poisioned.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Evmetro,

I remember feeling like my labor was being exploited when I was learning my trade. I remember complaining to my employer and asking for more money, and being turned down. What I did was shop around for a new employer, and I was soon working for an employer and a wage that I was happy with. I began to appreciate capitalism, but as time went on, I again was dissatisfied. I moved to higher paying jobs many times, until I got to a point where nobody would pay more than I was already getting. The only way I could see was to become the employer myself, and thank goodness for capitalism! Nothing was stopping me from opening my own business, so I used all the career knowledge that all my employers paid for over the years and did it. Capitalism is beautiful!

A great story. My own is very similar. Those who are adept and determined can make themselves rich. Seems like the major difference between our stories is the conclusions we are left with. Yours seems to be about what you get for what you did. Mine is one of empathy. You are thinking of yourself and what you get, and I am thinking of the big picture and what everybody gets.

Those who simply want to work a job, be a part of things, contribute their fair share? they get left behind. And what they are left with is getting to be so little that for some families it is not enough to live on, even with two workers bringing in paychecks.

And I while I am looking at the big picture and thinking of others, not just myself, I also consider trends which take place over a long period of time. And I wonder if our nation, under loosely regulated capitalism, is sustainable or if it will eat itself in the long run. I have to conclude we are on the road to ruin with the way wealth inequality keeps getting greater and greater. We are turning into the lords and the serfs again. I have to conclude that can't last that way. I would expect that sooner or later, so much wealth will be concentrated that there isn't much left to circulate in our economy. Seems like the only thing preventing a recession, due to widespread lack of wealth, is the government assistance that conservatives would do away with in their lust for more wealth.

If conservatives got everything on their wish list, a lot of people who have good government jobs would lose them, and they would look for work in the capitalist market. But the work they might find would pay very little, because with so many people willing to work, the wages would be very low. And there would be no government assistance, because conservatives would end that too. So people would simply do without, unable to buy things. Consumerism would plummet. There would be a recession. Not to mention tremendous unrest. To do that bad thing to all those millions of people would be a shame. And there would be nothing to end it. So then it would become a depression. And revenue would drop. So the government would be strung out on debt, too.

Doesn't sound like a great nation to me. Sounds like one that is stripped to the bone; dedicated to the rich only. I think that's dumb.

The rich would truly have it all. And there wouldn't be any extra for circulation. The economy would essentially shut down.

So, naturally, I don't want a conservative future for the USA.

Unrestrained capitalism serves the powerful few. We are a nation of many. Doing what conservatives want does not promote the general welfare. It promotes the exclusive welfare. That's not what the USA is all about.

Conservative ideas are not what the USA is all about.

We want a nation that works for everybody.

We want a government that looks out for everybody.

And if we have to tax the rich to give to the poor then that is what we have to do.

For the good of our country.

And you know it is all going to end up in a giant redistribution network, anyway. AI is going to eliminate most jobs. Oh, it won't happen right away. First it will be just one set of jobs. And many will say well it wasn't my job so I don't care. Then it will be more jobs. And the ones who still have jobs after that will say well it wasn't my job so I don't care. But then another thing will happen. All the people who got thrown out of jobs will try to retrain and go after the remaining jobs. And then employers will find out they can get really obedient selfless and diligent workers for far lower wages. And they will be happy to cut those wages and improve their profits.

So, even if AI doesn't take your job right away?

It will take your wages.

Then another thing will happen. With so many people losing wages, many will go into foreclosure, or they will sell cheap if they can. The housing market will be negatively impacted. Values will fall.

And then another thing will happen. With far fewer people able to spend freely, consumerism will drop. Business volumes will drop. Thin margin businesses will cease to earn profits. They will take heavy losses, have layoffs, sell-offs. Chapter 11. Ouuuu.

So we don't want that.

We need to have a good relationship with our government. We need to feel like it is our partner in life. We all have this relationship with our government, and it works in our collective favor. And that is good, because we humans happen to live in collectives. No collective can function without some kind of organization, and the way we are organized as a nation is through government. You know, it is often said that for collaborations, the total can equal more than the sum of the parts. Sports teams know this. Good business teams know this. And it happens in government, too. Government can and does do some pretty amazing things to enhance our lives, when you look at the big picture. There's no way we could do all that for ourselves. Our government is extraordinary!

Here we are, perhaps the most advanced nation on the planet, and we also have one of the most immense governments on the planet. Maybe there is something to that. Ya THINK? Great nation - great government. They go hand in hand.

Government is not the problem. Bad government. That's the problem. And who is supposed to take care of our government? The British? Sorry. Not any more. It's us, baby. If government is not performing the way we want it to it is all on us. Blaming government is blaming ourselves. We ARE our government. We built that. We own that.

And it is up to us to fix it.

And we've got enough work to do without people arguing that we shouldn't do it. So please just take a fresh look at the big picture and consider what would happen if current trends are allowed to continue over a long period of time. What we are doing is not sustainable. We have to tax the rich more. We can't really cut any spending. We've tried that. Republicans absolutely RAILED about it during Obama, and then they got control. They had the House, the Senate and the White House. Why didn't they cut any spending then? They could have thrown out Obamacare. They only reason they didn't do that is very simple. Self preservation. If they did that, a lot of them would have been voted OUT.

I think you need to consider the possibility that I might just be right about this. You guys had your chance to go hard right and you couldn't do it. Time to look at going the other way. And you know what? It won't be so bad. What would be so bad about it? What. You're afraid you night have to pay more taxes? I can tell you why that is totally not a problem. It's the kind of problems you WANT to have. Better that than to be on the receiving end of the dole. If you think it's really better on the other end, you always have the option of giving everything away, go penniless, then apply for whatever benefits you can. I think you already know you don't want to do that because you know you have it better.

So if you're rich, tell me. Just what part of your lifestyle do you think you will have to give up if your taxes go up? (I don't think it will be anything)

How many rich men have been taxed into poverty? Examples? OK then.

 

[evince]

Reagan made America hate again.

he was merely doing what the corporate money ordered up


he was a evil man for doing that

 

[Evmetro]

Hello Evmetro,



A great story. My own is very similar...

It is great that you have thought all this out, and that you are passionate about it. I remain confident that a hungry government makes strong people, and that hungry people make a strong government. I also disapprove of being obligated to support capable but non productive people.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Evmetro,

It is great that you have thought all this out, and that you are passionate about it. I remain confident that a hungry government makes strong people, and that hungry people make a strong government. I also disapprove of being obligated to support capable but non productive people.

And you apparently disapprove of helping some very productive people who are simply very productive at things that don't pay very well. Hey. It's not your fault that the poor are poor, right? So it must be THEIRS, right? It is so easy to feel no obligation to help, if the problem is none of your fault. I mean, who would want to be OBLIGATED to do the right thing? Well, nobody. If they don't already want to help the unfortunate on their own, certainly they would not want to be obligated to do it. But if they would want to help others on their own, it wouldn't matter, because they are already committed to helping others.

It is naturally understandable that if someone does not want to obligated to helping others, then they are simply going to ignore any relationship between wealth redistribution and positive economic effects. I mention it, but you don't comment on it. I think I know why. You're happy with deficit-spending to boost the economy. Sort of an instant-gratification, who-cares-about-the-future kind of a thing, but I get it. And I disagree. It is irresponsible to try to rev up an already-strong economy with deficit spending. A strong economy is when you need to try to pay down the debt.

So really, by being obligated to help others, we help ourselves by making the economy sustainably strong, able to pay down the federal debt, help others, and help ourselves with more business from a strong economy. It is a win-win. A good deal is always win-win.

This is part of the total being greater than the sum of the parts thing. We all really want to help, but only if we know everybody else is, too. We don't want to be the only one, or one of the few only helping a little. But if everybody has to do it, then it is automatically covered. And it actually helps the economy because those poor people spend everything they get. They have to. And we all get the sense of giving. Opening up our hearts. Like Christmas, you know? Think of it as Christmas all year. And it doesn't really hurt that much. Like I say. Taxing never made a rich man poor.

Yes, I have given the matter a great deal of thought, which is why my thinking cannot be summed up into an oft-repeated over simplified sound-byte.

 

[evince]

he is hate


hate is not reasonable


hate is not compassionate

some people open their eyes every day and dont feel anything for others

its brain wiring

Its not really their fault but the fact is they are broken human beings

they can not be trusted to help mankind survive and move forward


they are just a burden in the rest of us


Fortunately for them the ranks of those who care far outnumbers them and we will accept the burden they represent and help them as needed



this is why democracy works


mankind is mostly good even if they are not



their kind are those who began cheating in American elections because they could not convince people to be evil to each other


they amassed huge piles of green paper because they NEVER feel compelled to do the correct thing for mankind

they merely place personal gain over other humans


Its time to end their game and take the playing field back for the decent people



part of that means letting these broken people know that we know they are broken and that their "ideas" are a product of a broken mind


they can think what they will but the rest of mankind will throw their ideas in the trash


their ideas are the ramblings of incomplete human minds


they can vote

they can participate


but their ideas will never have the respect that fully functioning human minds ideas


make the arguments they make and you will be instantly recognized as a broken mind


they have failed ideas that don't work EVERY TIME they are tried

ONLY a broken mind would try to thrust such ideas forward

 

[Irish Exit]

Reagan made America hate again.

Your OP is just a rambling mess it made me wonder if your account had been hacked. Reagan did not make people hate government. Quite the opposite. His militarism implicitly praised the government as the one who could make you safe from things that go bump in the night. He just wasn't fond of the parts of government that democrats heart the most.

 

[Evmetro]

Hello Evmetro,



And you apparently disapprove of helping some very productive people who are simply very productive at things that don't pay very well. Hey. It's not your fault that the poor are poor, right? So it must be THEIRS, right? It is so easy to feel no obligation to help, if the problem is none of your fault....

I enjoy donating to the needy, but I don't enjoy being forced to help anybody. I am for our country having a safety net, but I do not trust the government to manage it. Even Churches have trouble managing their safety nets, but they do a better job than government.

I do not like to see mankind suffer, but I do like for people to be familiar with the uncomfortable feeling in the tummy when it does not get fed enough. This uncomfortable feeling that comes from not having enough to eat provides a beautiful and natural motivation to be productive. A good safety net needs to be able to sort out the ones who can be productive from those who can't.

 

[PoliTalker]

Your OP is just a rambling mess it made me wonder if your account had been hacked.

Not at all. Just a few thoughts that occurred to me. If you want professional journalism then go to the main stream media.

Reagan did not make people hate government. Quite the opposite. His militarism implicitly praised the government as the one who could make you safe from things that go bump in the night.

He made hating the government cool.

That was the act of a fool.

He just wasn't fond of the parts of government that democrats heart the most.

He said government itself was the problem. He lured America into self-hatred. He pretended that government was some kind of evil monster that has to be kept at bay or it will get too big and consume you. Guess what. We are all part of it already.