Ron Paul vs. Ronald Reagan

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/09/07/santorums-moment-the-reagan-li/

I found this article online, which explains in detail, how libertarian conservative politics was born, and where it originates from. (It certainly wasn't from Reagan.)

It's a tough read, 6 pages long, and the writer uses a style similar to Buckley, so his thought process is a bit difficult to follow at times, but if you take the time to read this, much will be learned about how the Republicans find themselves with a party split between true conservatives, and half right, half far-left insane people, like Ron Paul.
 
Only to agree that Ron Paul is loony toon.... don't get wtf some people think by calling themselves libertarians...
 
Only to agree that Ron Paul is loony toon.... don't get wtf some people think by calling themselves libertarians...

I never have understood it either, it's as if they were dropped on their heads when they were young. I thought this piece was rather revealing as to where this 'libertarian conservative' stuff originated, and how we are 'blessed' with it today, as part of the conservative political movement.
 
It took him six pages to say he's butt-hurt about a Ron Paul supporters video attacking him and being critical of Regan? Because one of the people that inspired Paul was non interventionist about communism? Wow, that's incredibly salient in the modern political arena when Americans are exponentially facing crushing inflation, nearly 1 in 5 being out of work or under employed, the largest national debt in history, and continuing breaches of civil liberties in the name of failed social conservatism. And that's just scratching the surface of all the fail lauded by you Dixie.
 
Libertarianism is fiscal conservatism with social liberalism. That's why its a failed ideology. Fiscal conservatism needs social conservatism to make it work. That's just the way it is, and you social liberals can only lie about it.
 
It took him six pages to say he's butt-hurt about a Ron Paul supporters video attacking him and being critical of Regan? Because one of the people that inspired Paul was non interventionist about communism? Wow, that's incredibly salient in the modern political arena when Americans are exponentially facing crushing inflation, nearly 1 in 5 being out of work or under employed, the largest national debt in history, and continuing breaches of civil liberties in the name of failed social conservatism. And that's just scratching the surface of all the fail lauded by you Dixie.

Thankyou for this extremely useful post. Consider yourself partialy redeemed.
 
It took him six pages to say he's butt-hurt about a Ron Paul supporters video attacking him and being critical of Regan? Because one of the people that inspired Paul was non interventionist about communism? Wow, that's incredibly salient in the modern political arena when Americans are exponentially facing crushing inflation, nearly 1 in 5 being out of work or under employed, the largest national debt in history, and continuing breaches of civil liberties in the name of failed social conservatism. And that's just scratching the surface of all the fail lauded by you Dixie.


I don't think he was "butt hurt" as much as he just wanted to set the record straight about who was on the wrong side of history and who wasn't. The economic problems, crushing inflation, and unemployment, are the result of liberal democrat policies, many of which, moderate republicans went along with, because they thought it politically expedient at the time. The debt and deficit began to become problematic under a Republican administration which was not conservative, by Reagan standards. In short, every "problem" we now face in America, is a direct result of us running away from Reagan policy as fast as we could... be it left or right.

I have never met people so devoutly naive about history, than Libertarians. It's as if you have no clue whatsoever, on the events of the past. We TRIED to not intervene.... before WWI... before WWII... Where did that get us? What was the result? We tried appeasing Communism, Fascism, Totalitarianism.... where did that get us? What was accomplished? If you just want to bury your heads in the sand like a bunch of ostriches, and pretend we live in some Pollyanna World that we've NEVER lived in, then have fun calling yourselves "Libertarians" ....I think you're a bunch of full-blown idiots of the highest order, and totally ignorant of history.
 
I don't think he was "butt hurt" as much as he just wanted to set the record straight about who was on the wrong side of history and who wasn't. The economic problems, crushing inflation, and unemployment, are the result of liberal democrat policies, many of which, moderate republicans went along with, because they thought it politically expedient at the time. The debt and deficit began to become problematic under a Republican administration which was not conservative, by Reagan standards. In short, every "problem" we now face in America, is a direct result of us running away from Reagan policy as fast as we could... be it left or right.
Oh he most assuredly is rectally pained, he goes to absurd lengths to try and pin a Youtube video by some random Paul supporter, which just HAPPENS to be hurtful towards said authors colon, as though it were the campaign plans of Paul himself. It's not, no more than your love of Trump, Perry, Cain, Bush, or whatever flavor of the month not-Obama Republican is actually indicative of their platform. At no point does it discuss in any sort of detail what Pauls actual stance on economics is, nor his plans for the economy or record on voting. It waxes for what seems to be near hours about how 'evil' the damned commies were, yet ignores any reason as to why that is relevant to the discussion of Paul in the presidential race. Other than he's different from Reagen of course, because if you don't pray nighty to both Jesus Christ AND Ronald W. Reagen, you're just a liberal commie, or some other such non-sense.

I have never met people so devoutly naive about history, than Libertarians. It's as if you have no clue whatsoever, on the events of the past. We TRIED to not intervene.... before WWI... before WWII... Where did that get us? What was the result? We tried appeasing Communism, Fascism, Totalitarianism.... where did that get us? What was accomplished? If you just want to bury your heads in the sand like a bunch of ostriches, and pretend we live in some Pollyanna World that we've NEVER lived in, then have fun calling yourselves "Libertarians" ....I think you're a bunch of full-blown idiots of the highest order, and totally ignorant of history.
Clearly you've never struck a glance in a mirror then. We were in no way isolationist during the course of WWI. We continually supplied the allied powers and accepted the biggest bullshit propaganda cause to go trouncing off to fight across the Atlantic. Nor was isolationism in any way prevalent during WWII. FDR tried desperately to intervene at the earliest moment, selling off war materials to the Allied powers from the start. It is the rarest moment indeed when America has actually practiced isolationism, because for nearly 200 years we as a nation have meddled in the affairs of other foreign powers.

And just how, pray tell, did we try to appease Communism? By intervening in civil wars? By supplying insurgents to fight communist governments, or prevent communist governments from rising? By planting dictatorial leaders as heads of state? By pointing and threatening them with nuclear weapons? I'm really curious to know just where we attempted to appease communism or communist nations.
 
Oh he most assuredly is rectally pained, he goes to absurd lengths to try and pin a Youtube video by some random Paul supporter, which just HAPPENS to be hurtful towards said authors colon, as though it were the campaign plans of Paul himself. It's not, no more than your love of Trump, Perry, Cain, Bush, or whatever flavor of the month not-Obama Republican is actually indicative of their platform. At no point does it discuss in any sort of detail what Pauls actual stance on economics is, nor his plans for the economy or record on voting. It waxes for what seems to be near hours about how 'evil' the damned commies were, yet ignores any reason as to why that is relevant to the discussion of Paul in the presidential race. Other than he's different from Reagen of course, because if you don't pray nighty to both Jesus Christ AND Ronald W. Reagen, you're just a liberal commie, or some other such non-sense.

As the article aptly points out, it has ALWAYS been a conservative position to oppose Communism, and always a Liberal initiative to appease them. That hasn't changed a bit, as we can tell by your smart-assed condescending remarks. The author does go into great detail on the people who Paul claims are his mentors, people he admires and looks up to. And it points out their wrongheaded views of old, going back to before Reagan was even in public office. Hardly some blowhard harping on a youtube from some irrelevant Paul supporter, a concise dossier on the Libertarian movement, and how they came to hold so much influence in the Republican party. Turns out, it's mostly a ruse.

Clearly you've never struck a glance in a mirror then. We were in no way isolationist during the course of WWI. We continually supplied the allied powers and accepted the biggest bullshit propaganda cause to go trouncing off to fight across the Atlantic. Nor was isolationism in any way prevalent during WWII. FDR tried desperately to intervene at the earliest moment, selling off war materials to the Allied powers from the start. It is the rarest moment indeed when America has actually practiced isolationism, because for nearly 200 years we as a nation have meddled in the affairs of other foreign powers.

Again, your post confirms precisely what I said earlier about your ignorance of history. Look, you can slice and dice things any way you please, you can construe and misconstrue facts and skew them to whatever means you wish... that's all clever and cute, and I am sure you are proud of yourself for being able to manipulate historical facts in such a way, but you are just flat out lying through your shit-stained teeth. Prior to WWI, the political sentiment of MOST of America, was isolationist. The VAST majority of Americans did NOT want to get involved overseas, with whatever was going on... same with the period just prior to WWII. It took an attack on Pearl Harbor for Americans to justify intervention in WWII. Prior to that, it was overwhelming consensus that we should stay the hell out of it. I don't give a damn if you want to not believe that, or if you want to try and rewrite history about it, that's the facts of the matter, and most intelligent thinking people know this. Unfortunately, you rely on finding really stupid people to believe you, people who listen to you yammer and think you sound like you know what you're talking about. You are totally full of shit.

And just how, pray tell, did we try to appease Communism? By intervening in civil wars? By supplying insurgents to fight communist governments, or prevent communist governments from rising? By planting dictatorial leaders as heads of state? By pointing and threatening them with nuclear weapons? I'm really curious to know just where we attempted to appease communism or communist nations.

I never said we appeased Communism. I said there was a political contingent who WANTED to appease Communists, just like there is a political contingent NOW who WANT to appease radical Islamists. You're simply and quite frankly, on the wrong side of history. Are you trying to claim there weren't any political figures, during the Reagan years, who didn't want Reagan talking tough to Gorbachev? Who freaked out when Reagan walked out of the talks at Reykjavik? Who were more than willing to give up our nukes in Europe in the hopes the 'appeasement' would please the Soviets and they would play nice? Were you living under a rock at the time, or in a drug-induced coma? Or maybe you weren't even born yet, and have no fucking clue what the hell you're even talking about here? Which is it, skippy?
 
Libertarianism is fiscal conservatism with social liberalism. That's why its a failed ideology. Fiscal conservatism needs social conservatism to make it work. That's just the way it is, and you social liberals can only lie about it.

In NO way, NONE.... does fiscal conservatism need social conservatism. The two are not even remotely related. Monetary and fiscal policy do not rely upon whether gay marriage is allowed or whether or not abortion is legal. Not in the least.

It is beyond Mott's insane level of daily absurdity to proclaim fiscal conservatism needs social conservatism. It is saying a lot about your intellectual incompetence for you to have fallen below the rock like levels of Mott.
 
In NO way, NONE.... does fiscal conservatism need social conservatism. The two are not even remotely related. Monetary and fiscal policy do not rely upon whether gay marriage is allowed or whether or not abortion is legal. Not in the least.

It is beyond Mott's insane level of daily absurdity to proclaim fiscal conservatism needs social conservatism. It is saying a lot about your intellectual incompetence for you to have fallen below the rock like levels of Mott.

Intellectual? Is that what you think you are being, SF?

I have to disagree with the Secularist Conservatives here. Conservatism, as a political philosophy, relies on both fiscal and social policy. One without the other, is a recipe for failure, as we have seen in the past. You want to do as the Liberals, and 'paint' social conservatism with your own descriptive terms... gay marriage in this case... and pretend that social conservatism is Puritanism. There is a lot more to social conservatism than gay marriage or abortion, or any number of other moral issues, and you need to be honest with yourself and others about that. Intellectualism requires being objective, not closed-minded and bigoted.

Social conservatism is more about our culture and society, in which we have to raise our children and families, and live. It's difficult enough to instill moral values in our youth, without immoral examples being set by our government. In order to have a society where people act responsibly, morally, ethically... we must raise our children to respect moral values, to encourage personal responsibility, to be morally accountable for their deeds. By undermining morality, by attacking it at every indication, you effectively render it impossible to raise children in an environment conducive with a moral foundation. Over time, this moral erosion will become more and more apparent in our society, and eventually... it will collapse our civilization, just as it did the Romans.

So now, you can be "intellectual" if you like, SF... the bottom line is, everything has absolutely everything to do with everything.
 
Intellectual? Is that what you think you are being, SF?

I have to disagree with the Secularist Conservatives here. Conservatism, as a political philosophy, relies on both fiscal and social policy. One without the other, is a recipe for failure, as we have seen in the past. You want to do as the Liberals, and 'paint' social conservatism with your own descriptive terms... gay marriage in this case... and pretend that social conservatism is Puritanism. There is a lot more to social conservatism than gay marriage or abortion, or any number of other moral issues, and you need to be honest with yourself and others about that. Intellectualism requires being objective, not closed-minded and bigoted.

ROFLMAO..... I used a couple of examples of social conservative issues ditzie. Please enlighten us as to which social conservative issues have ANYTHING to do with being fiscally conservative.

Then do tell us how I was being close minded and/or bigoted with my comments.

Social conservatism is more about our culture and society, in which we have to raise our children and families, and live. It's difficult enough to instill moral values in our youth, without immoral examples being set by our government. In order to have a society where people act responsibly, morally, ethically... we must raise our children to respect moral values, to encourage personal responsibility, to be morally accountable for their deeds. By undermining morality, by attacking it at every indication, you effectively render it impossible to raise children in an environment conducive with a moral foundation. Over time, this moral erosion will become more and more apparent in our society, and eventually... it will collapse our civilization, just as it did the Romans.

That is a fine and well ditzie... but in no way does the above alter FISCAL conservative ideas. Whether you adhere to either extreme of moralistic beliefs.... puritanical or Mott's love affair with his sheep.... neither effects the ability of one to be fiscally conservative.

"everything has absolutely everything to do with everything" .... Well Mott, you are off the hook, Ditzie just doubled down on your normal level of stupidity.

Tell us ditzie.... do you need to check the weather in AZ in order to mow a lawn in MS?

Fucking idiot.

So now, you can be "intellectual" if you like, SF... the bottom line is, everything has absolutely everything to do with everything.[/QUOTE]
 
In NO way, NONE.... does fiscal conservatism need social conservatism. The two are not even remotely related. Monetary and fiscal policy do not rely upon whether gay marriage is allowed or whether or not abortion is legal. Not in the least.

It is beyond Mott's insane level of daily absurdity to proclaim fiscal conservatism needs social conservatism. It is saying a lot about your intellectual incompetence for you to have fallen below the rock like levels of Mott.

Both are about personal responsibility, and its an all-or-none situation. Again, that's why libertarianism fails.
 
Both are about personal responsibility, and its an all-or-none situation. Again, that's why libertarianism fails.

I do not disagree that they are both about personal responsibility (for social that is not always the case), but in NO way is it any type of 'all or none' situation. THAT is why the far right is labeled 'nuts'.... because they believe it is all or none.

If I say I am going to earn enough money to pay all of my bills and save some money for a rainy day.... I can do that whether I believe in gay marriage or not. I can do that whether I believe abortions are murder or not. I can do that whether I share your definition of 'family values' or not. IN NO WAY are they tied together in the sense that you cannot do one without the other.

Libertarianism has not failed. To say it has failed would imply that it has been tried. It has not. Instead we end up with the constant bullshit from the two fiscally irresponsible parties who continually point to the wedge social issues to divide this country and to distract her citizens from the FACT that BOTH parties have been fiscally irresponsible and complete failures. BOTH PARTIES. THOSE are the failures.
 
"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defence. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country." -Ronald Reagan

"I strongly support Ron Paul, we very badly need to have more Representatives in the House who understand in a principled way the importance of property rights and religious freedom." -Milton Friedman

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#Quotes_about_Ron_Paul
 
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