Rove & Hillary

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I think that this is correct, and that leads me to believe that Democrats are on the verge of making yet another historic mistake and nominating Clinton. All polls indicate that Edwards and I believe Obama as well, beat a Republican nominee by more percentage points than Hillary does. Maybe Hillary can win, but it puts it closer than it has to be, and that makes it possible to steal.

I can only hope support for her craters before the primaries...or, that Gore enters and knocks her out.

Another Rove Fake-Out?

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Monday, August 20, 2007; 1:50 PM

I'm used to my readers ascribing all sorts of convoluted motivations to White House political mastermind Karl Rove. But now several upstanding mainstream media outlets are raising the possibility that Rove's attacks on Hillary Clinton are a colossal head fake.

Ever since he announced his resignation in the Wall Street Journal last week, President Bush's close adviser has been attacking Clinton, the leading Democratic presidential candidate, right and left. She's a "fatally flawed candidate," Rove told Journal editorial-page editor Paul A. Gigot. She's weak on national security, he told Rush Limbaugh. She carries too much baggage from her husband's White House years, he told Steve Holland of Reuters.

But taking Rove at face value has often proved to be a big mistake. And on Sunday morning, just before Rove set off on a round of television interviews, Peter Wallsten of the Los Angeles Times kicked off a round of informed MSM conspiracy-theorizing.

"Why did Rove, who often stays in the background, step forward to deliver such public attacks -- especially when the Democrats haven't begun to choose their presidential candidate for 2008 and when the general election is more than a year away?

"The answer might seem obvious: Rove saw Clinton as a formidable opponent and wanted to get his licks in early.

"For high-level campaign professionals like Rove, however, that kind of thinking may be too simple.

"The decision to focus on the New York senator to the exclusion of other potentially formidable Democratic standard-bearers such as Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois offered a rare glimpse into a world where things are not always what they seem -- the world of modern-day electioneering. . . .

"In this case, Rove's weeklong broadside against Clinton . . . looks suspiciously like an exercise in reverse psychology that his team employed three years ago when it was preparing for President Bush's reelection bid."

Wallsten recalls what Rove lieutenant Matthew Dowd apparently acknowledged during a conference at Harvard shortly after the 2004 election. During the primaries, Rove was considerably more afraid of then-Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina than of Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, Dowd said. "Whomever we attacked was going to be emboldened in Democratic primary voters' minds," Dowd said.

So they attacked Kerry.

Deb Riechmann of the Associated Press picked up the new meme, writing: "Master GOP strategist Karl Rove won't let up in his attacks on Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton, but the intriguing question is why.

"Is it a sign that Rove, who masterminded Bush's two presidential victories, is worried about Clinton? Or a calculation that the GOP attacks will get Democrats to rally to her side because the GOP would prefer not to take on Democrats John Edwards or Barack Obama?"

When Rove took up the Clinton critique again on the Sunday talkers, two of his three interlocutors raised the head-fake charge. His denials were limp.

On Fox News Sunday, Chris Wallace asked: "Her campaign says the more you attack her, the more the Democrats love her. So why are you helping Hillary Clinton?

"ROVE: Didn't know that I was. Don't think that I am.

"WALLACE: What does that mean?

"ROVE: Exactly that.

"WALLACE: In fact, I mean, is there a certain amount of -- don't throw me into the briar patch here -- that you'd like to see her as the Democratic candidate?

"ROVE: Look. It is going to be what it's going to be. I mean, you know, the Democrats are going to choose a nominee. I believe it's going to be her. That's their business. Maybe I made the mistake of trying to be -- audition for a member of the Fox panel by opining about what might happen. But I think she's going to be the nominee."

On Meet the Press, NBC's David Gregory noted, when Rove refused to talk about Obama: "You haven't shied away from talking about Hillary Clinton.

"MR. ROVE: Well, I'm just, I'm just going to let, I'm going to let -- I've said enough. I've got to, I've got to save a little bit more for later.

"MR. GREGORY: Do you really fear Barack Obama? That's why you're spending all this time attacking Hillary Clinton?

"MR. ROVE: You know, I -- you know, I read that in the LA Times this morning. Those, those guys really out in LA have got to get clued in. I mean, come on."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/08/20/BL2007082000872_pf.html
 
yes the republicans clearly view hillary as the biggest threat. Maybe they will not hit Edwards so hard then...
 
Go Hillary!

Yeah, funny. That's what I think the Republicans want. It's not that I think they are "salivating" at the idea of running against her, she is formidable, and their candidates suck. What I think is, she might be their best shot at retaking the white house in 08...by no means a sure shot, not even a very good shot, but considering their circumstances, their best shot.

If they can just get it close...then we add in some caging lists, some voter suppression, 8 hour waits in largely black districts, next thing you know, you've got four years of facism ala Rudy.
 
Yeah, funny. That's what I think the Republicans want. It's not that I think they are "salivating" at the idea of running against her, she is formidable, and their candidates suck. What I think is, she might be their best shot at retaking the white house in 08...by no means a sure shot, not even a very good shot, but considering their circumstances, their best shot.

If they can just get it close...then we add in some caging lists, some voter suppression, 8 hour waits in largely black districts, next thing you know, you've got four years of facism ala Rudy.
No, I think she'd be President if she runs. Seriously, if people think she is the best they should vote for her, not everybody is as deep into it as people on this site and they like her. Go for it.

My post was a joke only based on the supposition that Rs were somehow hoping to run against her. While I think it will bring out the base for the Rs, I don't think her 'anti' is as strong as people believe it is.
 
No, I think she'd be President if she runs. Seriously, if people think she is the best they should vote for her, not everybody is as deep into it as people on this site and they like her. Go for it.

My post was a joke only based on the supposition that Rs were somehow hoping to run against her. While I think it will bring out the base for the Rs, I don't think her 'anti' is as strong as people believe it is.

I'm unsure. She has very high negative ratings. They bother me. I don't want to blow this election, when in fact, we could get an Edwards in there, who is far more liberal than either Hillary or Obama. I don't know why we, as the base, would be f'ing around with this, I really don't.

We're not likely to get another chance like this.
 
Seeing as i can't vote anyway, this is probably irrelevant, but i can't understand how can anyone trust Hillary.

She is a very capable politician who could take up a front bench position on either the Labour or Conservative front benches, over here, with relative ease. However, that's the point isn't it? What does she stand for?
 
Seeing as i can't vote anyway, this is probably irrelevant, but i can't understand how can anyone trust Hillary.

She is a very capable politician who could take up a front bench position on either the Labour or Conservative front benches, over here, with relative ease. However, that's the point isn't it? What does she stand for?

That's the impression a lot of people have of her. I'm not sure how much worse she is than any other politician in this regard, myself. But the fact that people perceive this about her, is a problem in itself.
 
Go Hillary!

Interestly enough there was a column the other day by some right-wing guy that actually quoted several of the right-wing pundits saying maybe Hillary won't be as bad as we think she will be and these guys kind of liked some of her foreign policy positions.

I thought maybe it was a satorical piece or was waiting for the punch line at the end but it never came. These people weren't openly rooting for her to be President but I think it was a combination of lack of excitement of the Republican candidates and the reality that Hillary is probably going to be our next President.

What has the world come to when some of the leading members of the "vast right-wing conspiracy" are openly kind of supporting Hillary?
 
I'm unsure. She has very high negative ratings. They bother me. I don't want to blow this election, when in fact, we could get an Edwards in there, who is far more liberal than either Hillary or Obama. I don't know why we, as the base, would be f'ing around with this, I really don't.

We're not likely to get another chance like this.


I totally agree. Hillary is too polarizing. And, its not really her fault - but, that's the seed that's been planted in the public's mind. I think she's actually very capable, and pragmatic.

I think Hillary could win a general election, but she would drag down other democrats further down on the ballot: congressional races, governor's races, state legislative races. And 2008 may well be a historic opportunity for Democrats, if they don't blow it.


On the other hand, the media's obsession with national polls at this point, is way premature.

Let's hope its Edwards or Gore. :clink:
 
I totally agree. Hillary is too polarizing. And, its not really her fault - but, that's the seed that's been planted in the public's mind. I think she's actually very capable, and pragmatic.

I think Hillary could win a general election, but she would drag down other democrats further down on the ballot: congressional races, governor's races, state legislative races. And 2008 may well be a historic opportunity for Democrats, if they don't blow it.


On the other hand, the media's obsession with national polls at this point, is way premature.

Let's hope its Edwards or Gore. :clink:

I'm bordering on praying at this point, and I don't pray. :)
 
yes the republicans clearly view hillary as the biggest threat. Maybe they will not hit Edwards so hard then...

The neocons despise hillary, and she could win if enough independents vote against the RP but the only dem they fear is Bill Richardson. Edwards can be as easily swift-boated as hillary.
 
The neocons despise hillary, and she could win if enough independents vote against the RP but the only dem they fear is Bill Richardson. Edwards can be as easily swift-boated as hillary.

Really, they fear a fat Mexican guy who can't speak that well on his feet?

I'd be surprised.
 
Bush won and he can't speak on or off his feet.

Really, they fear a fat Mexican guy who can't speak that well on his feet?

I'd be surprised.

Yes, as a matter of fact they do. Richardson is a democrat governor of a republican state. During the Clinton years Richardson was the only democrat republicans couldn't demonize.

As it stands now, the only swift-boating they could do on Richardson is the medical marijuana issue and they have already lost middle of the road and libertarian members over that issue.
 
Yes, as a matter of fact they do. Richardson is a democrat governor of a republican state. During the Clinton years Richardson was the only democrat republicans couldn't demonize.

As it stands now, the only swift-boating they could do on Richardson is the medical marijuana issue and they have already lost middle of the road and libertarian members over that issue.

How do you know that they do?

You like Richardson, could it be that becaue you personally feel he would be the best dem candidate, you assume they "fear" him? There are a lot of people who say "they" fear Edwards the most. I don't personally believe I could know.

Unless you know "them" personally? Rove, the head of the RNC? Has someone told you this?
 
How do you know that they do?

You like Richardson, could it be that becaue you personally feel he would be the best dem candidate, you assume they "fear" him? There are a lot of people who say "they" fear Edwards the most. I don't personally believe I could know.

Unless you know "them" personally? Rove, the head of the RNC? Has someone told you this?
Darla, that's called OPINION
 
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