Rulers vs Ruled: 10 Things Government Can Do That Would Land You in Jail

[SmarterthanYou]

http://informationliberation.com/?id=43987

Spying: You are considered a Peeping Tom if you spy on your neighbor, and if caught you'd go to jail or be sued. Citizens are also increasingly being arrested for filming police or public buildings under wiretapping charges of all things. Meanwhile, the government is using massive resources (paid for by tax slaves) to violate the Constitution to spy on everyone and everything with impunity.

Insider Trading: Yes, you will serve jail time like Martha Stewart did for using marginally helpful insider trading information, but politicians voted themselves exempt from insider trading laws. It must be nice to be exempt from the peasant's laws.

Hacking: You will go to jail if you hack into someone's cell phone or email account. The government, on the other hand, has legalized wiretapping and hacking to keep us safe. As they attempt to convince the public that nation-states and terrorists will engage in cyber attacks so that they can pass Internet control legislation, the U.S. and Israel are the only nations to publicly admit to attacking another nation with a computer virus.

Kidnapping: Kidnappers are some of the most deplorable criminals in society, yet the government engages in organized kidnapping. Corrupt family courts stripping children from their parents for things like legal medical marijuana, or attending a protest, and the NDAA authorizing indefinite detention for "suspected" terrorists and "associated forces", proves the government are kidnapping people. What would happen if you did the same thing?

Stealing: Do you know that if you're suspected of drug crimes, the authorities can confiscate your property? It's called civil forfeiture and police departments make millions from this practice. And what happens if you don't pay your property taxes?

Extortion: Some call taxes a form of theft, which it is, but it's more appropriate to call it extortion. It's no different than paying protection money to your local mafia. Over one-third of your working life belongs to the mafia. But, hey, at least you're a slave for only a third of the year, right?

Counterfeiting: Between the Fed continuing to bail out failed banks to the tune of $83 billion per month and the fractional reserve banking system itself, the government via the Fed can print as much money as they want with no restrictions. It's monopoly money, literally. Counterfeiting is a serious crime for anyone not sanctioned to do it. Even using competing currencies is against the law for regular citizens.

Molestation: Try putting your hands on anyone in the same manner as the TSA does to men, women and children on a daily basis in airports -- you'd wind up in jail for quite a while. TSA-inspired VIPR teams are now roaming public transportation, while attendees at sporting events are groped before game time. New York City has drawn attention for its special brand of "stop-and-frisk" which is a nice way of saying illegally detain, interrogate, molest, and don't go to jail for it.

Assault: Whether it is spraying protesters like bugs, acts of police brutality that populate YouTube all day long, or government-sponsored torture committed by agencies like the CIA, the government has proven more often than not to be above the law in every area of assault that would put a normal citizen in jail.

Murder: In the real world, you or I cannot carry out a premeditated murder without going to jail for life. But this is exactly what is being done with drones, as "security officials" decide on Terror Tuesdays at the White House if the bulls-eye goes on your forehead or not. When a government can murder anyone, anywhere at anytime via secret kill lists, the concept of a government of, by, and for the people has been erased and replaced by tyranny.

Didn't we once have a government that was supposed to be limited and do nothing more than protect our rights????

"We are fast approaching the stage of ultimate inversion: the stage where government is free to do as it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission." - Ayn Rand

 

[tekkychick]

Interesting list. I don't like the forfeiture laws; I don't like the drone strikes; I don't like the insider trading exemptions. The Patriot Act sucks (is that word allowed here? I'm still new)

Some of the other ones, I'd argue the definition or the extent or the existence (no, they aren't counterfeiting money.)

But in terms of taxes - I think those are what we pay to have a civilized society, with police and fire protection; levee strengthening; help with recovery from natural disasters; medical clinics for poor people; the CDC which does so much good; R&D by the govt instead of businesses so we can all share in the rewards (I know it's hackneyed to say so, but the space program was a huge benefit to our businesses and society); etc etc etc

The govt also has responsibilities we don't have - to protect our borders, fight our enemies, maintain law and order, ensure a level playing field. It's not always successful at all these activities, but they are important; none of us have the right to form an army to go invade a country - only the govt does, and therefore yes, they have powers we don't have. Of course, we technically grant the govt the power and we can take it away; although, as we saw with the Iraq war, our efforts often fail. In spite of the huge numbers of people against it, it still happened.

We need to keep insisting our representatives actually represent us; we need to continue to insist on a strong, fair, just, free legal system; and no, govt won't get it right all the time; and yes, they will mess up a lot; but that's why we have checks and balances and sometimes we do redress the wrongful acts.

Oh my, sorry, got a bit soapbox-y there! Again, thanks for providing a list for our consideration.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Interesting list. I don't like the forfeiture laws; I don't like the drone strikes; I don't like the insider trading exemptions. The Patriot Act sucks (is that word allowed here? I'm still new)

Some of the other ones, I'd argue the definition or the extent or the existence (no, they aren't counterfeiting money.)

But in terms of taxes - I think those are what we pay to have a civilized society, with police and fire protection; levee strengthening; help with recovery from natural disasters; medical clinics for poor people; the CDC which does so much good; R&D by the govt instead of businesses so we can all share in the rewards (I know it's hackneyed to say so, but the space program was a huge benefit to our businesses and society); etc etc etc

The govt also has responsibilities we don't have - to protect our borders, fight our enemies, maintain law and order, ensure a level playing field. It's not always successful at all these activities, but they are important; none of us have the right to form an army to go invade a country - only the govt does, and therefore yes, they have powers we don't have. Of course, we technically grant the govt the power and we can take it away; although, as we saw with the Iraq war, our efforts often fail. In spite of the huge numbers of people against it, it still happened.

We need to keep insisting our representatives actually represent us; we need to continue to insist on a strong, fair, just, free legal system; and no, govt won't get it right all the time; and yes, they will mess up a lot; but that's why we have checks and balances and sometimes we do redress the wrongful acts.

Oh my, sorry, got a bit soapbox-y there! Again, thanks for providing a list for our consideration.

Here is a head scratcher for ya. Why aren't we allowed to print our own money? Why is it illegal?

 

[tekkychick]

Here is a head scratcher for ya. Why aren't we allowed to print our own money? Why is it illegal?

Tried that before the fed... mass chaos ensued. Coins were whittled down, there was no trust that the paper bill you got was actually worth what it said it was worth, etc. I'm pretty sure you can print a bill of your own money - as long as it isn't an attempt to defraud by making it look like a "real" dollar bill or ten dollar bill or whatever - the next problem would be getting anyone to accept it.

However, "bitcoins" are around - those are an example of private money, albeit online.

And there is a list of places in the US with local currencies here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

Not individuals printing them, but local communities with their own exchange method.

 

[Red Mule]

As far as the original post - BIG GROAN!

He forgot the one about forcing us to serve on a jury. How about restricting how fast we can drive our cars? And the never to be forgotten - insisting that we properly care for our children? You know, like giving them a decent education, medical care, and not beating them for acting like children. Yup! That evil government, that we elected, sure is evil! - Hint, that is sarcasm.

 

[Annie]

Tried that before the fed... mass chaos ensued. Coins were whittled down, there was no trust that the paper bill you got was actually worth what it said it was worth, etc. I'm pretty sure you can print a bill of your own money - as long as it isn't an attempt to defraud by making it look like a "real" dollar bill or ten dollar bill or whatever - the next problem would be getting anyone to accept it.

However, "bitcoins" are around - those are an example of private money, albeit online.

And there is a list of places in the US with local currencies here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

Not individuals printing them, but local communities with their own exchange method.

Didn't work out well during the Civil War either.

 

[Phantasmal]

As far as the original post - BIG GROAN!

He forgot the one about forcing us to serve on a jury. How about restricting how fast we can drive our cars? And the never to be forgotten - insisting that we properly care for our children? You know, like giving them a decent education, medical care, and not beating them for acting like children. Yup! That evil government, that we elected, sure is evil! - Hint, that is sarcasm.

Hello, Red Mule, welcome

 

[Rune]

Tried that before the fed... mass chaos ensued. Coins were whittled down, there was no trust that the paper bill you got was actually worth what it said it was worth, etc. I'm pretty sure you can print a bill of your own money - as long as it isn't an attempt to defraud by making it look like a "real" dollar bill or ten dollar bill or whatever - the next problem would be getting anyone to accept it.

However, "bitcoins" are around - those are an example of private money, albeit online.

And there is a list of places in the US with local currencies here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

Not individuals printing them, but local communities with their own exchange method.

Nice try, but we hardly need a privately owned centrall bank to print our money. The US treasury could do just fine without the FED.

 

[Red Mule]

Nice try, but we hardly need a privately owned centrall bank to print our money. The US treasury could do just fine without the FED.

RE: The Washington quote.
GW and others of the founding fathers said a lot of things that might or might not have been right for their day. But, most of them would be totally wrong in today. Washington might have not liked slavery, but that didn't keep him from owning them. He certainly made no moves to give women the right to vote. In fact, when the country was founded, in most states only white men with real property (land) or sufficient wealth for taxation were permitted to vote. But we figured out that was unjust and changed those requirements.

So, I will decide just how armed and how well supplied with ammo I think any of us need to be based on need and logic. Not on the ideas of a 18th century man, no matter what his contribution to the early US. Or to any of those men who would have had no concept of the power of today's weapons and the way in which many of them are used. In GW's entire presidency, I will wager there was not a single mass murder of 5 year old children by the psycho son of a gun collector that thought her armory would (and ultimately didn't) protect her. I bet there was not a single attack on the people watching a Batman movie. There was not a single Columbine. There was not ...

PS, there were essentially no police and no professional military in the US in those days either. There were Indian uprisings and the occasional wild animals wandering around as well. And the only government they had ever experienced was a monarchy. Maybe all that might have had something to do with their thoughts as well.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

RE: The Washington quote.
GW and others of the founding fathers said a lot of things that might or might not have been right for their day. But, most of them would be totally wrong in today. Washington might have not liked slavery, but that didn't keep him from owning them. He certainly made no moves to give women the right to vote. In fact, when the country was founded, in most states only white men with real property (land) or sufficient wealth for taxation were permitted to vote. But we figured out that was unjust and changed those requirements.

So, I will decide just how armed and how well supplied with ammo I think any of us need to be based on need and logic. Not on the ideas of a 18th century man, no matter what his contribution to the early US. Or to any of those men who would have had no concept of the power of today's weapons and the way in which many of them are used. In GW's entire presidency, I will wager there was not a single mass murder of 5 year old children by the psycho son of a gun collector that thought her armory would (and ultimately didn't) protect her. I bet there was not a single attack on the people watching a Batman movie. There was not a single Columbine. There was not ...

PS, there were essentially no police and no professional military in the US in those days either. There were Indian uprisings and the occasional wild animals wandering around as well. And the only government they had ever experienced was a monarchy. Maybe all that might have had something to do with their thoughts as well.

There are,quite literally, over a BILLION threads on guns here already. Use one of them to discuss it.

 

[Rune]

RE: The Washington quote.
GW and others of the founding fathers said a lot of things that might or might not have been right for their day. But, most of them would be totally wrong in today. Washington might have not liked slavery, but that didn't keep him from owning them. He certainly made no moves to give women the right to vote. In fact, when the country was founded, in most states only white men with real property (land) or sufficient wealth for taxation were permitted to vote. But we figured out that was unjust and changed those requirements.

So, I will decide just how armed and how well supplied with ammo I think any of us need to be based on need and logic. Not on the ideas of a 18th century man, no matter what his contribution to the early US. Or to any of those men who would have had no concept of the power of today's weapons and the way in which many of them are used. In GW's entire presidency, I will wager there was not a single mass murder of 5 year old children by the psycho son of a gun collector that thought her armory would (and ultimately didn't) protect her. I bet there was not a single attack on the people watching a Batman movie. There was not a single Columbine. There was not ...

PS, there were essentially no police and no professional military in the US in those days either. There were Indian uprisings and the occasional wild animals wandering around as well. And the only government they had ever experienced was a monarchy. Maybe all that might have had something to do with their thoughts as well.

Thanks for expressing your opinion.
Based on your logic, the entire constitution and especially the Bill of Rights are meaningless, since they have had to have been amended since.

Your entire post is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and essentially nonsense.

What does that say about you?

I picked the Washington quote for a reason. Get over it or shut the fuck up.

As to this, perhaps the most asinine statement ever made on JPP;


"So, I will decide just how armed and how well supplied with ammo I think any of us need to be based on need and logic"

no, you do NOT get to decide, and it shows your entire mindset.

You get the award of being the first person I have put on ignore for ONE post, idiot.

 

[Rune]

Red Mule
n00b

[h=2] This message is hidden because Red Mule is on your ignore list. [/h]

 

[canceled.2021.1]

RE: The Washington quote.
GW and others of the founding fathers said a lot of things that might or might not have been right for their day. But, most of them would be totally wrong in today. Washington might have not liked slavery, but that didn't keep him from owning them. He certainly made no moves to give women the right to vote. In fact, when the country was founded, in most states only white men with real property (land) or sufficient wealth for taxation were permitted to vote. But we figured out that was unjust and changed those requirements.

So, I will decide just how armed and how well supplied with ammo I think any of us need to be based on need and logic. Not on the ideas of a 18th century man, no matter what his contribution to the early US. Or to any of those men who would have had no concept of the power of today's weapons and the way in which many of them are used. In GW's entire presidency, I will wager there was not a single mass murder of 5 year old children by the psycho son of a gun collector that thought her armory would (and ultimately didn't) protect her. I bet there was not a single attack on the people watching a Batman movie. There was not a single Columbine. There was not ...

PS, there were essentially no police and no professional military in the US in those days either. There were Indian uprisings and the occasional wild animals wandering around as well. And the only government they had ever experienced was a monarchy. Maybe all that might have had something to do with their thoughts as well.

Actually, there was a good reason for only having people who owned property be able to vote. They would be less likely to vote themselves benefits out of someone else pockets like we have today. There are too many people who are takers who want to vote themselves goodies from the makers. It is a self defeating process that eventually leads to nowhere

 

[tekkychick]

Actually, there was a good reason for only having people who owned property be able to vote. They would be less likely to vote themselves benefits out of someone else pockets like we have today. There are too many people who are takers who want to vote themselves goodies from the makers. It is a self defeating process that eventually leads to nowhere

And yet, there are tax deductions for mortgage interest, but not for rent or credit card interest. So your whole theory is just blown to pieces.

ps - I know Red Mule from another board; he's an intelligent, ethical poster who adds to the debate, does not detract from it. I realize his post that irritated Rune may have seemed off-topic, but as he is new to this board I recommend un-ignoring him and giving him some time to get used to it.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

And yet, there are tax deductions for mortgage interest, but not for rent or credit card interest. So your whole theory is just blown to pieces.

ps - I know Red Mule from another board; he's an intelligent, ethical poster who adds to the debate, does not detract from it. I realize his post that irritated Rune may have seemed off-topic, but as he is new to this board I recommend un-ignoring him and giving him some time to get used to it.

The peace and civility approach....not what I would expect around here.

 

[tekkychick]

Nice try, but we hardly need a privately owned centrall bank to print our money. The US treasury could do just fine without the FED.

Certainly that is something worth discussing. After all, the fed did us little good in the runup before the 2007 crash. I don't know enough to say if the US Treasury can handle it or if the Fed adds value. I happen to like the federal reserve for certain personal reasons, but those are separate from whether it adds value or not.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I don't know enough

Never were truer words spoken on JPP

 

[I'm Watermark]

Nice try, but we hardly need a privately owned centrall bank to print our money. The US treasury could do just fine without the FED.

Or, even better, we hardly need currency. There are far better ways -- like time banks, communitarian methods of exchange, outright communes, and use of a state to circulate resources.

 

[Red Mule]

It was pointed out to me that I improperly posted a reply to a photo-sig about people being armed in a thread about government. I am guilty, lash me to the tree.

HOWEVER, what does that say about the idiot that stuck that photo on every one of his posts and dragged it around this forum like blood soaked bait in front of sharks and then was shocked when one of them took a bite? If you don't want someone to comment about guns here, perhaps you shouldn't FIRST post your gun-supporting image here. And anyone that likes is welcome to quote me if they think the idiot that put me on ignore should see it.

Have a nice day.

 

[tekkychick]

By the way - if you go to "settings" up top and then "general settings" again under "my account" - you can hide the images - uncheck the "show images" box. I did that because these threads get so cluttered with everyone's long signatures and lots of pics. I'm debating unchecking the "show signatures" as well. I didn't actually see Rune's gun/washington picture until I searched for it; I was really wondering what you were responding to... then I finally noticed he/she had a pic link and it took me to the quote you referenced.