Rummy and Reagan Liked Saddam!

Jarod

Well-known member
Contributor
In the long war between Iran and Iraq, the Reagan administration helped Saddam get international loans, restored formal relations in 1984 and secretly provided Iraq with intelligence and military support.

It sent Donald H. Rumsfeld, who had served in the Nixon and Ford administrations, on a tour in December 1983 that included a stop in Baghdad and meetings there with Saddam and his foreign minister, Tariq Aziz.

Worried about Syria and oil supplies as well as Iran, Rumsfeld suggested relations between the two countries had "more similarities than differences," according to his report from the meetings. An equally accommodating Saddam suggested his part of the world had more in common culturally with Washington than Moscow.

In his meeting with the foreign minister _ but not Saddam _ Rumsfeld parenthetically raised subjects that hindered the U.S. from doing more for Iraq in its war with Iran. Two decades later, with Rumsfeld as defense secretary, these subjects would be used to summon rage against the Iraqi leader.

"I made clear that our efforts to assist were inhibited by certain things that made it difficult for us, citing the use of chemical weapons, possible escalation in the Gulf, and human rights," Rumsfeld wrote back then.

By 1991, the United States was at war with Iraq, assembling a coalition to force Saddam to reverse his annexation of Kuwait. Saddam was the target of U.S. denunciation from then on, as a sponsor of terrorism, a seeker of weapons of mass destruction, and a ruthless murderer of Kurds, opponents of his rule and inconvenient family members.

Left in power after his forces retreated from Kuwait, Saddam was a volcanic presence in U.S. affairs for another decade, capped but toxic. It was a time of convoluted sanctions, fitful weapons inspections and no-fly-zone confrontations.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/31/ap/politics/mainD8MBJL1O2.shtml
 
HE was one of the favorites of the CIA, as was Osama Been Hiding.
 
Cheney's Buddy, Saddam, is Dead

There's a marvelously provocative recent documentary out there that I sincerely wish I could make required viewing for all high school students in the United States. It's called Why We Fight, which is taken from a series of propoganda films Frank Capra made for the U.S. government during WW II. It is, quite simply, an examination of the real reasons for which we conquered Iraq . . . and also the reasons behind many of our military adventures of the past half century.

Those reasons had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis, or stopping the spread of WMDs . . . or controlling oil, for that matter. We already have enough control over the flow of oil, for most practical purposes. The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable. Profitable for certain people, anyway.

The trouble with stimulating the economy by means of military spending is that it's immensely inefficient. Too much of the taxpayer's money goes to people who don't need it. In this case, almost all of it.
 
That is even worse than wanting it for oil, but you are right.
I read a site online that keeps up with the war profiteers of Iraq.
It is disgusting!
 
Nobody "liked" Iraq or Iran.... They kept falling for the "just as long as oil flows" mentality.
 
There's a marvelously provocative recent documentary out there that I sincerely wish I could make required viewing for all high school students in the United States. It's called Why We Fight, which is taken from a series of propoganda films Frank Capra made for the U.S. government during WW II. It is, quite simply, an examination of the real reasons for which we conquered Iraq . . . and also the reasons behind many of our military adventures of the past half century.

Those reasons had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis, or stopping the spread of WMDs . . . or controlling oil, for that matter. We already have enough control over the flow of oil, for most practical purposes. The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable. Profitable for certain people, anyway.

The trouble with stimulating the economy by means of military spending is that it's immensely inefficient. Too much of the taxpayer's money goes to people who don't need it. In this case, almost all of it.

Do you ever wonder where these people meet and plan out the future? I mean..lets face it... if as you suggest.. WW2, Korea, VNAM were fought for profit.., when and where was the plan drawn up and by whom?

Somebody recently outlined a conspiracy theory for me as to what really trnaspired leading up to 9/11 ...and why it was preplanned by the evil forces aka The Worlds Wealtheist and why Bush was planted as the President in charge of all these dirty deeds...
It all looks good on paper ... its rather scary.. makes one feel as though we really do live in some kind of Matrix ... until ... You ask yourself this one tiny question ... Why and by Whom?
ornot.. this is what you are suggesting .... that there is a Cartel Of Wealth out there pulling the strings... they secretly meet and plan out the future..., in this case they planned out the Iraqi War.. which means that they must of planned out the events leading up to the Iraqi War ..which would include 9/11.

So who are the mebers of this Cartel?
 
Do you ever wonder where these people meet and plan out the future? I mean..lets face it... if as you suggest.. WW2, Korea, VNAM were fought for profit.., when and where was the plan drawn up and by whom?

Somebody recently outlined a conspiracy theory for me as to what really trnaspired leading up to 9/11 ...and why it was preplanned by the evil forces aka The Worlds Wealtheist and why Bush was planted as the President in charge of all these dirty deeds...
It all looks good on paper ... its rather scary.. makes one feel as though we really do live in some kind of Matrix ... until ... You ask yourself this one tiny question ... Why and by Whom?
ornot.. this is what you are suggesting .... that there is a Cartel Of Wealth out there pulling the strings... they secretly meet and plan out the future..., in this case they planned out the Iraqi War.. which means that they must of planned out the events leading up to the Iraqi War ..which would include 9/11.

So who are the mebers of this Cartel?
Klaatu, the whole point is that no "plan" need ever be drawn up. Y'all over there think too much in terms of conspiracies and cabals: that's not what this is all about.

All that's required is for very powerful people to follow their own narrow self interest. We're talking about a very small fracton of the population; most do know one another socially and have every opportunity to influence one another's thinking without any Grand Designs or shadowy puppet-masters.
 
Yes Ornot, they just all play the same game, but not at the same table.
And the game is diverting taxpayer dollars to their bank accounts, basically.

It's all a scam, and has been since before Eisenhower warned us about it. Even Ike fell for it: he bought into the whole Cold War idiocy, which was the opening gambit. The scam has become more obvious today but it's also become habitual. People don't often question habitual behaviors, alas.


We vastly overspend on "defense." That's the bottom line. The people who manipulate us into doing so have a variety of personal motives -- there is no Grand Conspiracy -- but those personal motives are largely irrelevant. It all boils down to a vast amount of profit for a relatively small number of families.
 
And that concept is growing as well with all the privitization going on.
Where does more money come from once the market approaches saturation ?
 
Klaatu, the whole point is that no "plan" need ever be drawn up. Y'all over there think too much in terms of conspiracies and cabals: that's not what this is all about.

All that's required is for very powerful people to follow their own narrow self interest. We're talking about a very small fracton of the population; most do know one another socially and have every opportunity to influence one another's thinking without any Grand Designs or shadowy puppet-masters.


Oh I see.. iow ..a wink of the eye... sort of telepathic in nature ...


You made a blanket statement here:

"Those reasons had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis, or stopping the spread of WMDs . . . or controlling oil, for that matter. We already have enough control over the flow of oil, for most practical purposes. The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable. Profitable for certain people, anyway."


This sounds like something that is preplanned ... "The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable." IOW ... What you are saying is that Bush didnt have to say it to anyone ... he just did it ... he Invaded Iraq with a wink and a telepathic message to all the arms manufacturers ...

The Guy is brilliant!
 
yeah sort of like Jeb gettin money from Texas (and other) oil companies to run for Gov of FL. He did not have to ask, neither did the Bush family, but if someone helps one Bush......
 
Oh I see.. iow ..a wink of the eye... sort of telepathic in nature ...


You made a blanket statement here:

"Those reasons had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis, or stopping the spread of WMDs . . . or controlling oil, for that matter. We already have enough control over the flow of oil, for most practical purposes. The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable. Profitable for certain people, anyway."


This sounds like something that is preplanned ... "The real reasons have to do with the fact that war is profitable." IOW ... What you are saying is that Bush didnt have to say it to anyone ... he just did it ... he Invaded Iraq with a wink and a telepathic message to all the arms manufacturers ...

The Guy is brilliant!
You got it backward. It's the Military Industrial Complex itself that calls the shots. Bush did their bidding, in effect, rather than the other way 'round. Bush did their bidding because he and his inner circle of advisors are all involved in the scam. Many of them are deeply involved: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Powell and Perle, among others.

You can't keep selling arms unless there's a war now and then. They need to be wars we can win but that's no problem anymore, really.

The point is that "WMDs" and "liberating Iraq" were just post-hoc rationalizations. The fact is that a lot of very powerful people wanted to invade Iraq. They wanted to do so for a wide range of personal reasons. Most of those personal reasons, however, were conditioned by the fact that they get their living from defense spending and military adventurism.
 
You got it backward. It's the Military Industrial Complex itself that calls the shots. Bush did their bidding, in effect, rather than the other way 'round. Bush did their bidding because he and his inner circle of advisors are all involved in the scam. Many of them are deeply involved: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Powell and Perle, among others.

You can't keep selling arms unless there's a war now and then. They need to be wars we can win but that's no problem anymore, really.

The point is that "WMDs" and "liberating Iraq" were just post-hoc rationalizations. The fact is that a lot of very powerful people wanted to invade Iraq. They wanted to do so for a wide range of personal reasons. Most of those personal reasons, however, were conditioned by the fact that they get their living from defense spending and military adventurism.


Sounds like a plan to me .... The Military Industrial Complex is made up of people.... Bush and his cronies did their bidding ... and alot of very powerful people wanted to invade Iraq for personal reasons ...

Yet nobody sat at a table and discussed the stratagy? There was no preplanning? Nothing needed to be said?

And the fact that all of this happened... it is not a conspiracy?
 
Sounds like a plan to me .... The Military Industrial Complex is made up of people.... Bush and his cronies did their bidding ... and alot of very powerful people wanted to invade Iraq for personal reasons ...

Yet nobody sat at a table and discussed the stratagy? There was no preplanning? Nothing needed to be said?

And the fact that all of this happened... it is not a conspiracy?
No, it is not a conspiracy. It doesn't need to be a conspiracy. All it takes is for people to pursue their own self interest. This is exactly why concentration of economic power in too few hands is dangerous.

People really are predicatable in large groups. If it is in the economic interests of the powerful that we pursue military adventures then we will pursue military adventures. As we have, consistently over the past 50 years.

The only solution is to prevent any one group of people from becoming too powerful. This is what Eisenhower was warning us against. It's also why so many of the framers of the constitution had such a lively horror of hereditary aristocracy.
 
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