Saddam is dead...
- Thread starter Damocles
- Start date
C
Cancel5
Guest
Damn, it is hard to believe...
Will we ever know the full story of this man, his country and the US.
Will we ever know the full story of this man, his country and the US.
Sure... Going here is a fine start on finding out the truth of Saddam's Iraq.
http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
For us? Little to nothing. For the Iraqi people? Not much more than that, sadly.
If Iraq today were a measurably better place than it was under Saddam then it might mean something. But it isn't and so it doesn't.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
If Iraq today were a measurably better place than it was under Saddam then it might mean something. But it isn't and so it doesn't.
This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like, has no idea of what it's like to not enjoy the freedom he takes for granted, and has never in his life, not been surrounded by freedom and democracy.
In the static pinhead world, every thing is measured by relative worth at the moment, without regard for the future or any intangible possibility. Because things are bad in Iraq today, means Iraq would have been better off under Saddam, and what might result in the future is of no consequence whatsoever. The only time something is "worth it" in the static pinhead world, is if it involves instant gratification. Only then, can the static-minded pinhead actually see the results and realize the benefits.
I prefer to look at the future in a much broader scope than the pinhead who looks through a soda straw. I see Iraq in twenty, thirty, fifty years down the road... after they've democratically ironed out the political differences, and stemmed the sectarian violence. When the only Arab Democracy in the world is kicking economic ass, and head and shoulders above any of their neighbors, in prosperity, technology, infrastructure, and success. I contrast this with the potential 2-300 more mass graves full of thousands of dead innocent Iraqi's who didn't please Saddam for whatever reason, and were systematically slaughtered. The dismal future of these people under Uday or Qusay Hussein, who were actually more demented than their father, The Butcher of Baghdad. There is simply no telling how many years of nightmarish torment was spared the people of Iraq, but because a few nuts are still managing to blow up things and break stuff, the pinheads assume they would have been better off under Saddam... How pathetically ridiculous can they get?
This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like, has no idea of what it's like to not enjoy the freedom he takes for granted, and has never in his life, not been surrounded by freedom and democracy.
In the static pinhead world, every thing is measured by relative worth at the moment, without regard for the future or any intangible possibility. Because things are bad in Iraq today, means Iraq would have been better off under Saddam, and what might result in the future is of no consequence whatsoever. The only time something is "worth it" in the static pinhead world, is if it involves instant gratification. Only then, can the static-minded pinhead actually see the results and realize the benefits.
I prefer to look at the future in a much broader scope than the pinhead who looks through a soda straw. I see Iraq in twenty, thirty, fifty years down the road... after they've democratically ironed out the political differences, and stemmed the sectarian violence. When the only Arab Democracy in the world is kicking economic ass, and head and shoulders above any of their neighbors, in prosperity, technology, infrastructure, and success. I contrast this with the potential 2-300 more mass graves full of thousands of dead innocent Iraqi's who didn't please Saddam for whatever reason, and were systematically slaughtered. The dismal future of these people under Uday or Qusay Hussein, who were actually more demented than their father, The Butcher of Baghdad. There is simply no telling how many years of nightmarish torment was spared the people of Iraq, but because a few nuts are still managing to blow up things and break stuff, the pinheads assume they would have been better off under Saddam... How pathetically ridiculous can they get?
Annie
Not So Junior Member
That Iraq is a mess can be of no doubt, that I agree with most here. However, does anyone else notice how the media tells of the insurgency and 'civil war', yet fails to notice that many of the victims of Saddam, which were not a few, want to have us support stability there, before withdrawing?
As for Saddam, I think this article by a strong critic of Bush is worth a read:
http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly...n_for_tyrants_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm
Beefy
Worst gambler ever
I prefer to look at the future in a much broader scope than the pinhead who looks through a soda straw.
Bullshit. Its you and your "Shoot first, ask questions later" ilk that got us into this mess. 3,000 dead Americans for your beloved war, more than died on 9-11. And guess what, things are getting worse by the day. You want to still be over there in 30 years, I don't.
Bullshit. Its you and your "Shoot first, ask questions later" ilk that got us into this mess. 3,000 dead Americans for your beloved war, more than died on 9-11. And guess what, things are getting worse by the day. You want to still be over there in 30 years, I don't.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Aww Beefster... don't be a knee-jerk reactionary like that! You are an educated person, you know how history works, and things as profound as introducing democracy to the Arab world for the first time, is just going to take patience. You can read history and see, nothing happens over night, empires do not rise or fall in a matter of a few years, it generally takes many decades.
We will be in that part of the world as long as we need to be there. As long as our nation is dependent on the natural resources there, as long as our security is threatened by weapons of mass destruction in the hands of madmen, and as long as there is any hope of us giving our fellow man the opportunity and hope of freedom instead of oppression. You may not like it, you may downright hate it, but that's how it will be, and it really doesn't matter who gets elected or what happens in American politics.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I understand you have to divert the points I made about the static pinhead mind, but why do you have to just outright lie? I have fairly good knowledge of how life was in Iraq under Saddam, one of my closest friends is a Kurdish Iraqi who lived under Saddam. When I was in Iraq, it was only for a short time, and I was not in the "green zone" very often. This has nothing to do with how life was under Saddam, versus how life will be in a thriving Arab democracy one day.
The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country. This means, out of every FIVE Iraqi's, only ONE is even possibly a part of this threat. This means, for every 100 insurgents, there are 400 Iraqi's ready to put a bullet in their heads. Who the fuck do you think will eventually WIN this confrontation?
Yeah, it's bad right now, because a "few nuts" can cause a lot of damage.... look what 19 of them, with box cutters, did to the US on 9/11. So, yeah, right now at this moment, all hell is breaking loose in Iraq... it will not ALWAYS be like that! This is classical pinheaded static thinking again!!!
maineman
Banned
YOu say:
"I understand you have to divert the points I made about the static pinhead mind, but why do you have to just outright lie? I have fairly good knowledge of how life was in Iraq under Saddam, one of my closest friends is a Kurdish Iraqi who lived under Saddam. "
yet you can, almost in the same breath, say,
"This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like.
You tend to give yourself credit for an enormous breadth and depth and LENGTH of knowledge about all aspects of life in Iraq and simultaneously dismiss everyone else's knowledge. It is such conceit that diminishes the strength of your argument.
you say:
"The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country. This means, out of every FIVE Iraqi's, only ONE is even possibly a part of this threat. This means, for every 100 insurgents, there are 400 Iraqi's ready to put a bullet in their heads. Who the fuck do you think will eventually WIN this confrontation?
Yeah, it's bad right now, because a "few nuts" can cause a lot of damage.... look what 19 of them, with box cutters, did to the US on 9/11. So, yeah, right now at this moment, all hell is breaking loose in Iraq... it will not ALWAYS be like that! This is classical pinheaded static thinking again!!!
20% of the Iraqi population is actively involved in the insurgency. I think that is a fair estimate. But to claim that the other 80% OPPOSES the aims goals and methods of the insurgents is inaccurate. Far less than 20% of American are members of the Armed Forces, but the remainder of us are certainly not diametrically opposed to the work being done by the men and women in uniform. My guess is that the vast majority of shiite Iraqis are supportive of the actions taken by shiite insurgents and vehemently oppose the actions taken by the sunni insurgents, much like the vast majority of sunnis support the actions of the sunni insurgents and opposed those of the shiites.
And 20% of the population actively involved in paramilitary activity is hardly a "few nuts" by anyone's definition....
and yes...all hell IS breaking loose in Iraq today...and that is ALL because you stupid morons started this stupid counterproductive war.
"I understand you have to divert the points I made about the static pinhead mind, but why do you have to just outright lie? I have fairly good knowledge of how life was in Iraq under Saddam, one of my closest friends is a Kurdish Iraqi who lived under Saddam. "
yet you can, almost in the same breath, say,
"This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like.
You tend to give yourself credit for an enormous breadth and depth and LENGTH of knowledge about all aspects of life in Iraq and simultaneously dismiss everyone else's knowledge. It is such conceit that diminishes the strength of your argument.
you say:
"The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country. This means, out of every FIVE Iraqi's, only ONE is even possibly a part of this threat. This means, for every 100 insurgents, there are 400 Iraqi's ready to put a bullet in their heads. Who the fuck do you think will eventually WIN this confrontation?
Yeah, it's bad right now, because a "few nuts" can cause a lot of damage.... look what 19 of them, with box cutters, did to the US on 9/11. So, yeah, right now at this moment, all hell is breaking loose in Iraq... it will not ALWAYS be like that! This is classical pinheaded static thinking again!!!
20% of the Iraqi population is actively involved in the insurgency. I think that is a fair estimate. But to claim that the other 80% OPPOSES the aims goals and methods of the insurgents is inaccurate. Far less than 20% of American are members of the Armed Forces, but the remainder of us are certainly not diametrically opposed to the work being done by the men and women in uniform. My guess is that the vast majority of shiite Iraqis are supportive of the actions taken by shiite insurgents and vehemently oppose the actions taken by the sunni insurgents, much like the vast majority of sunnis support the actions of the sunni insurgents and opposed those of the shiites.
And 20% of the population actively involved in paramilitary activity is hardly a "few nuts" by anyone's definition....
and yes...all hell IS breaking loose in Iraq today...and that is ALL because you stupid morons started this stupid counterproductive war.
-DIXIE: "When I was in Iraq, it was only for a short time, and I was not in the "green zone" very often. "
Doubtful. On FP.com you clearly didn’t even know what the green zone was. And this was after you came back from your "assignment" in Iraq. Shall I post the link?
”The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country."
You’re two years behind Dixie. The problem is no longer the sunni-dominated insurgency. it’s the civil war. The shia have organized themselves into militias and death squads that are a direct threat to the formation of a pro-american “democracy”.
Doubtful. On FP.com you clearly didn’t even know what the green zone was. And this was after you came back from your "assignment" in Iraq. Shall I post the link?
”The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country."
You’re two years behind Dixie. The problem is no longer the sunni-dominated insurgency. it’s the civil war. The shia have organized themselves into militias and death squads that are a direct threat to the formation of a pro-american “democracy”.
Sorry runyon. That dog won't hunt anymore.
The vast majority of americans don't care anymore about what saddam did in the 1980s when Reagan and poppy bush were supporting him.
This war was sold to the american people on the basis of OUR national security and WMD. Saddam was a thug. No american is shedding tears for him. But that's old news - and its not the reason we are spending vast amounts of blood and treasure.
Annie
Not So Junior Member
and Cypress, why am I unsurprised by your callous response?
Annie
Not So Junior Member
Yes, I think few actually understand what he did and when. They hear, 'the us supplied wmd', but not what the Euros did, nor Saddam's choices when available. Then again, that would be presenting a complete pic, not something you would be likely to go with. France, Germany and Russia were much more responsible for the final outcome than US, where has the media been in that?
