Some questions...Question #1:

[Ross Dolan]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

 

[Ross Dolan]

For the above question, let us say, producing a (generic) metal spring, drinking glass, weld, screw, bolt, nut, or the like.

For some things, mechanical assistance OBVIOUSLY is more productive: Moving goods from the east coast to the west, lifting huge loads, digging large trenches…and such, it is no contest. Having a freight train, crane, or back hoe do it is MUCH more productive than having humans do it.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

A machine can operate 24/7 if maintained , A lot of manufacturing is now done this way

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

Yes, it would, depending on what the job is. And as long as it's kept properly maintained/programmed. It could work 24/7 w/o lunch breaks, PTO, sick time.

I recall reading when I was a kid that robotics would replace factory workers in the future. And they did. The U.S. (and other countries as well) are just as productive as ever, but with fewer workers.

 

[Matt Dillon]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

That depends on the job, Frankus. If it involves management of any natural resources, I'd say definitely not.
If it involves hammering 16s into a 2x8, maybe. Depends on the situation.
You don't know what 16s are, do ya, Frank/Ross?

 

[Ross Dolan]

That depends on the job, Frankus.

Cute. I bet the other patients think your are very clever.

If it involves management of any natural resources, I'd say definitely not.

I agree. There are some jobs machines cannot do. No machine will ever make a hand-made silk tie...and I doubt that any mechanical bartender will be able to do that job with the same panache as humans are able to bring to that job.
Not sure about management of any natural resources. Gotta think about that.

If it involves hammering 16s into a 2x8, maybe. Depends on the situation.
You don't know what 16s are, do ya, Frank/Ross?

I worked on a construction job for several years. I've done jackhammering a concrete floor over in the Meadowlands. (Hardest job I've ever done.) I've done post hole digging in a very stony area. (second hardest.) I've done every job in demolition or construction imaginable. I driven 16s...although in most residential contruction...it was 10 common.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

I have worked in MFG for nearly 50 years and have seen the evolution from manual operations to automated and computer controlled mfg. Factories today are nothing like they were in the 60's

 

[Ross Dolan]

A machine can operate 24/7 if maintained , A lot of manufacturing is now done this way

Could you give me a more definitive answer to:

If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

It might, but a strong enough union could delay its adoption / implementation to preserve jobs.
It's best to get more efficient in periods of growth
where not having to hire new people is better than having to lay present people off.

Companies can get efficient, but they can't sell their products to unemployed people.

 

[Ross Dolan]

It might, but a strong enough union could delay its adoption / implementation to preserve jobs.
It's best to get more efficient in periods of growth
where not having to hire new people is better than having to lay present people off.

Companies can get efficient, but they can't sell their products to unemployed people.

Okay to all that, but...

...can you give me a definitive answer to:

If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Okay to all that, but...

...can you give me a definitive answer to:

If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

Probably,
I would think,
but from my pro-labor perspective, Frank, it wouldn't matter.

I think of the worker first and the profits and efficiency second,
because when everybody has a living income,
EVERY stratus of the population does best including-- long term--even the corporate oligarchs.
They're programmed to think short term, unfortunately.

This is why, where the manufacture and sale of consumer products probably belong in the private sector,
I think other essential things would be better served in the collective public sector.
It's the very reason, far more than feel good social issues, why I'm a progressive liberal.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Probably,
I would think,
but from my pro-labor perspective, Frank, it wouldn't matter.

I think of the worker first and the profits and efficiency second,
because when everybody has a living income,
EVERY stratus of the population does best including-- long term--even the corporate oligarchs.
They're programmed to think short term, unfortunately.

This is why, where the manufacture and sale of consumer products probably belong in the private sector,
I think other essential things would be better served in the collective public sector.
It's the very reason, far more than feel good social issues, why I'm a progressive liberal.

Okay, I understand what you are saying, but your specific answer to the question, "If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?" is...

...YES.

Without going into all the peripheral reasoning...it seems to me that almost anyone would answer that specific question, YES...be they Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian, theistic, atheistic, agnostic, black/white/brown of complexion, born in almost any country...of wealthy means, moderate means, or of lowly, almost desperate means.

Hope more people respond. I'll get to the second question after enough do.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I hope they do as well.
Answers, please, people.
I'm very curious as to where this series of questions is going.

 

[Yakuda]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

If the machine robot or computer is "efficient" then the likely answer is "yes".

 

[Ross Dolan]

If the machine robot or computer is "efficient" then the likely answer is "yes".

Agree.

 

[Yakuda]

Agree.

The end of the world must be near. Lol

 

[Kafka]

Automation is fine insofar as it is more efficient. But if it results in people being unable to afford food and shelter there is no reason for automation. Even an inefficient system that helps more people will be preferable. UNLESS we establish some "minimum guaranteed income" for everyone in the country. Of course that will never fly with some folks.

Here's how it WILL go down here in the US:

We will develop technology to do pretty much everyone's job from manual labor to white-collar "knowledge work" and the corporations will roll it all out (long before it is actually good enough to do the job) and they will go through about 5-10 years of cycling back and forth getting rid of headcount and then re-hiring after the poorly implemented early phase systems screw up, back and forth for a couple years until the technology gets just good enough to be acceptable most of the time and then corporations will start the wholesale slaughter of their workforce. Leaving millions unemployed in what was once the richest nation on earth VERY QUICKLY showing up our current issue of massive wealth inequality and we will crater back into a crisis of unemployment and a twisted form of the Gilded Age only without sweatshops, just massive poverty.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

For the above question, let us say, producing a (generic) metal spring, drinking glass, weld, screw, bolt, nut, or the like.

For some things, mechanical assistance OBVIOUSLY is more productive: Moving goods from the east coast to the west, lifting huge loads, digging large trenches…and such, it is no contest. Having a freight train, crane, or back hoe do it is MUCH more productive than having humans do it.

is the metal spring a man or a woman......how does it self identify.......

 

[Jade Dragon]

I have a series of questions I’d like to ask, just to see how close to unanimity we can get from the various political, ethical, racial, cultural and gender factions here in the forum.

I recognize that no one may be interested in this as a topic...and also recognize that we may not even come close to unanimity. But for those willing to participate, let’s just see if there is any nearness that can be obtained.

The first question (what I consider an easy one, but let’s see) is:


If there is a job for which an efficient machine, robot or computer can be devised…on average, would the machine, robot, computer be more productive at that job than a human?

I wouldn't know much about jobs being disabled but I'm pretty sure you can make a machine to do most simple jobs and even more complicated ones. Some things are better done by humans.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I wouldn't know much about jobs being disabled but I'm pretty sure you can make a machine to do most simple jobs and even more complicated ones. Some things are better done by humans.

Hey, JD.

I agree...some things can be better done by humans. But this is a question about jobs for which a machine CAN be devised.

On average do you suppose that IF a machine can be devised to do a job...IN YOUR OPINION will the machine be more productive at the job than would a human?

I appreciate your contribution whether you can go further or not.