Stalin , Hitler and Mao ??

[Quasar44]

The 3 most evil people to ever have Lived
. You would be surprised who killed more

Stalin killed around 20 million. About 7-10 million from the Ukraine holocaust in 1932-33 and another 12 million in purges
Mao -from his failed “Great leap forward “ , a total disaster killed 30 million plus ( 1958-61) and I don’t know how many he purged !!

Hitler -killed maybe 17 million in the death camps and with purges with many being Jews .Plus he started WW2

 

[BattleofHodow]

Mao was probably not quite as bad as the other 2.

Only because his mass-murders were probably more accidental, than Hitler's & Stalin's.

Hitler killed much more than 17 million, he killed another 20 - 30 million in the Soviet Union, mostly ethnic Russians.

So, I suspect Hitler's the worst, of the 3.

 

[Quasar44]

Mao was probably not quite as bad as the other 2.

Only because his mass-murders were probably more accidental, than Hitler's & Stalin's.

Hitler killed much more than 17 million, he killed another 20 - 30 million in the Soviet Union, mostly ethnic Russians.

So, I suspect Hitler's the worst, of the 3.

Yes if you add in WW2 then yes
Germans just in the siege of Leningrad must have starved to death a few million Russians

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Stalin was a hero

Mao was a legend

Hitler is a hero only in the minds of the evil American empire

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The 3 most evil people to ever have Lived
. You would be surprised who killed more

Stalin killed around 20 million. About 7-10 million from the Ukraine holocaust in 1932-33 and another 12 million in purges
Mao -from his failed “Great leap forward “ , a total disaster killed 30 million plus ( 1958-61) and I don’t know how many he purged !!

Hitler -killed maybe 17 million in the death camps and with purges with many being Jews .Plus he started WW2

Number of people Stalin killed who didn't deserve it: 0

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The 3 most evil people to ever have Lived
. You would be surprised who killed more

Stalin killed around 20 million. About 7-10 million from the Ukraine holocaust in 1932-33 and another 12 million in purges
Mao -from his failed “Great leap forward “ , a total disaster killed 30 million plus ( 1958-61) and I don’t know how many he purged !!

Hitler -killed maybe 17 million in the death camps and with purges with many being Jews .Plus he started WW2

What about Ghengis Khan? He was responsible for around 40 million deaths. Which was around 10% of the world’s population at that time. More if you consider the Mongols opening of trade routes played a significant role in the spread of the bubonic plague in the 12th century.

Then there is Tojo. Under his leadership over 25 million, mostly Chinese, died.

Then there is Charles V of Spain. During his rule 25 to 50 million Native Americans died in the New World due to his conquest.

 

[Trumpet]

The 3 most evil people to ever have Lived
. You would be surprised who killed more

Stalin killed around 20 million. About 7-10 million from the Ukraine holocaust in 1932-33 and another 12 million in purges
Mao -from his failed “Great leap forward “ , a total disaster killed 30 million plus ( 1958-61) and I don’t know how many he purged !!

Hitler -killed maybe 17 million in the death camps and with purges with many being Jews .Plus he started WW2

You forgot Trump

 

[Cypress]

Trying to do the math on these things is always dubious. I believe the most important thing to learn about these crimes against humanity is what their motivation was and how they were implemented

The Nazi's were obviously intent on destroying all Jews in Europe, and to take down a large number inferior races as a subsidiary goal. The Nazi's industrialized mass murder on scale unprecedented.

Seven million dead Ukrainians sounds dubious. The famine in 1932-33 was bad enough, but seven million would be about one quarter of the entire population of Ukraine. I have known elderly people who lived in 1930s Ukraine and I never got the impression from them that one quarter of the population ceased to exist in the 1932-33 famine. No question the famine was human-induced...whether it was intentional genocide or only due to the brutal agricultural collectivization policies of Stalin is an open question.

The point of the Gulag was to 1) terrorize people into submission, and 2) create a slave labor pool to achieve the objectives of Stalin for rapid industrialization. As brutal and dehumanizing as the Gulag was it's goal was forced labor and terror, not genocide. Most of the people I know who went into the Gulag survived their sentence, though they were obviously brutalized and scarred for life. The brutality of forced labor in the climate of Siberia and arctic Russia probably killed around a million people.

The Great Purges of the late 1930s probably resulted in several hundred thousand deaths minimum - purportedly political opponents of Stalin but undoutedly mostly sealing the premature fate of countless innocent people. I believe the most disappointing aspects of Russian history is that Stalin was never held accountable for his crimes.

The Rwandan genocide seems to hold a lot of lessons, but I still don't understand it that well. Beneath the simplistic explanations of Inter tribal rivalry, there seems to be deep linkages to the history of Belgian colonialism.

 

[Quasar44]

Number of people Stalin killed who didn't deserve it: 0

Your on iggy !! One sick man

 

[Quasar44]

What about Ghengis Khan? He was responsible for around 40 million deaths. Which was around 10% of the world’s population at that time. More if you consider the Mongols opening of trade routes played a significant role in the spread of the bubonic plague in the 12th century.

Then there is Tojo. Under his leadership over 25 million, mostly Chinese, died.

Then there is Charles V of Spain. During his rule 25 to 50 million Native Americans died in the New World due to his conquest.

Yes the Japanese emperor should have been included
Don’t forget the death marches

 

[Quasar44]

Trying to do the math on these things is always dubious. I believe the most important thing to learn about these crimes against humanity is what their motivation was and how they were implemented

The Nazi's were obviously intent on destroying all Jews in Europe, and to take down a large number inferior races as a subsidiary goal. The Nazi's industrialized mass murder on scale unprecedented.

Seven million dead Ukrainians sounds dubious. The famine in 1932-33 was bad enough, but seven million would be about one quarter of the entire population of Ukraine. I have known elderly people who lived in 1930s Ukraine and I never got the impression from them that one quarter of the population ceased to exist in the 1932-33 famine. No question the famine was human-induced...whether it was intentional genocide or only due to the brutal agricultural collectivization policies of Stalin is an open question.

The point of the Gulag was to 1) terrorize people into submission, and 2) create a slave labor pool to achieve the objectives of Stalin for rapid industrialization. As brutal and dehumanizing as the Gulag was it's goal was forced labor and terror, not genocide. Most of the people I know who went into the Gulag survived their sentence, though they were obviously brutalized and scarred for life. The brutality of forced labor in the climate of Siberia and arctic Russia probably killed around a million people.

The Great Purges of the late 1930s probably resulted in several hundred thousand deaths minimum - purportedly political opponents of Stalin but undoutedly mostly sealing the premature fate of countless innocent people. I believe the most disappointing aspects of Russian history is that Stalin was never held accountable for his crimes.

The Rwandan genocide seems to hold a lot of lessons, but I still don't understand it that well. Beneath the simplistic explanations of Inter tribal rivalry, there seems to be deep linkages to the history of Belgian colonialism.

Stalin did it intentionally on Ukraine
Hitler actually wanted to deport all Jews but every nation refused to take them ( even the USA ) . The UK took a few hundred Jewish kids in .

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes the Japanese emperor should have been included
Don’t forget the death marches

How can I? My wife is Filipino and pointed out to me a long time ago how annoying it is to hear Americans mispronounce Bataan. Keep in mind more Filipinos died for n that March than Americans so it’s seared into their collective memory too.

 

[Cypress]

Stalin did it intentionally on Ukraine
Hitler actually wanted to deport all Jews but every nation refused to take them ( even the USA ) . The UK took a few hundred Jewish kids in .

The crimes of Hitler and Stalin are appalling enough without resorting to hypotheticals about what mighta, coulda, or shoulda happened. Hitler never asked the Jews of Poland, Ukraine, Byelorussia if they would kindly just get on a boat and go to New York. They were rounded up and murdered post haste.

Stalin's crimes are bad enough without resorting to hypotheticals on the Ukraine famine. It was undoubtedly a man made famine, resulting from Stalin's brutal agricultural collectivization policies. And there was systematic repression and even murder of the Kulaks. But there is no scholarly consensus that the famine was intentionally engineered for the purpose of genocide, and there is no existing documentation showing it was. The fact is collectivization was a a brutal enough policy without trying to criminally conflate it with the genocide of the Jews. The thing that was truly terrifying about Stalinist Russia was the overwhelming climate of fear, oppression, and repression practiced relentlessly by the State against its own citizens.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Trying to do the math on these things is always dubious. I believe the most important thing to learn about these crimes against humanity is what their motivation was and how they were implemented

The Nazi's were obviously intent on destroying all Jews in Europe, and to take down a large number inferior races as a subsidiary goal. The Nazi's industrialized mass murder on scale unprecedented.

Seven million dead Ukrainians sounds dubious. The famine in 1932-33 was bad enough, but seven million would be about one quarter of the entire population of Ukraine. I have known elderly people who lived in 1930s Ukraine and I never got the impression from them that one quarter of the population ceased to exist in the 1932-33 famine. No question the famine was human-induced...whether it was intentional genocide or only due to the brutal agricultural collectivization policies of Stalin is an open question.

The point of the Gulag was to 1) terrorize people into submission, and 2) create a slave labor pool to achieve the objectives of Stalin for rapid industrialization. As brutal and dehumanizing as the Gulag was it's goal was forced labor and terror, not genocide. Most of the people I know who went into the Gulag survived their sentence, though they were obviously brutalized and scarred for life. The brutality of forced labor in the climate of Siberia and arctic Russia probably killed around a million people.

The Great Purges of the late 1930s probably resulted in several hundred thousand deaths minimum - purportedly political opponents of Stalin but undoutedly mostly sealing the premature fate of countless innocent people. I believe the most disappointing aspects of Russian history is that Stalin was never held accountable for his crimes.

The Rwandan genocide seems to hold a lot of lessons, but I still don't understand it that well. Beneath the simplistic explanations of Inter tribal rivalry, there seems to be deep linkages to the history of Belgian colonialism.

I think that’s what was so frightening about the Mongols other than to use mass killings as a form of terror weapon and just plain brutal logic.

The Mongols logic is that once they had conquered a city/region/nation they would usually kill the current ruling class, take some slaves and largely leave the conquered to govern themselves as long as they paid tribute and obeyed a few basic rules the Mongols pretty much left them alone. But if they rebelled the Mongol logic was, what’s the most effective way to prevent any future rebellions in that city/region/nation? It was kill everyone...and they did.

The histories I’ve read document how efficiently the could depopulate an entire city. It is believed 20,000 Mongols executed 500,000 people of the city of Nor in a single morning.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The crimes of Hitler and Stalin are appalling enough without resorting to hypotheticals about what mighta, coulda, or shoulda happened. Hitler never asked the Jews of Poland, Ukraine, Byelorussia if they would kindly just get on a boat and go to New York. They were rounded up and murdered post haste.

Stalin's crimes are bad enough without resorting to hypotheticals on the Ukraine famine. It was undoubtedly a man made famine, resulting from Stalin's brutal agricultural collectivization policies. And there was systematic repression and even murder of the Kulaks. But there is no scholarly consensus that the famine was intentionally engineered for the purpose of genocide, and there is no existing documentation showing it was. The fact is collectivization was a a brutal enough policy without trying to criminally conflate it with the genocide of the Jews. The thing that was truly terrifying about Stalinist Russia was the overwhelming climate of fear, oppression, and repression practiced relentlessly by the State against its own citizens.

I think you make a valid point about the Nazi genocides. There have been worse genocides committed in history but none of that scale which were done so quickly on a modern industrial scale.

 

[Cypress]

I think that’s what was so frightening about the Mongols other than to use mass killings as a form of terror weapon and just plain brutal logic.

The Mongols logic is that once they had conquered a city/region/nation they would usually kill the current ruling class, take some slaves and largely leave the conquered to govern themselves as long as they paid tribute and obeyed a few basic rules the Mongols pretty much left them alone. But if they rebelled the Mongol logic was, what’s the most effective way to prevent any future rebellions in that city/region/nation? It was kill everyone...and they did.

The histories I’ve read document how efficiently the could depopulate an entire city. It is believed 20,000 Mongols executed 500,000 people of the city of Nor in a single morning.

Thanks, I need to put more study into the Mongol Empire

I would not have wanted to live in the Middle Ages and had to face a Mongol siege. I do not know what it is about those central Asian steppes peoples which make them so ferocious, because the Huns are not far behind the Mongols!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Thanks, I need to put more study into the Mongol Empire

I would not have wanted to live in the Middle Ages and had to face a Mongol siege. I do not know what it is about those central Asian steppes peoples which make them so ferocious, because the Huns are not far behind the Mongols!

Quite simply they were a Shepard/ Herding culture who disdained farmers and according to their logic the easiest way to convert an agricultural region to a pastoral one was to depopulate it. It was just brutal but absolutely logical that the best way to end resistance was to kill everyone who resisted and they did so with frightening efficiency.

If a Mongol Army approached a city and that city immediately opened the gates and surrender the Mongols were usually very generous on their terms. They might eliminate the ruling political class but often didn’t and as long as they paid tribute and obeyed the few laws the mongols established they pretty much left you alone.

If you resisted or rebelled the often killed everyone right down to the dogs and cats, then would come back a few weeks later to kill what few survivors had escaped the original massacre. Needless to say the propaganda value this gave the Mongols often worked in their favor.

There’s no doubt that in pure numbers and on a proportional basis Ghengis was the greatest mass murderer in human history.

The one I mentioned earlier the mongols started early one morning. Each soldier was assigned to kill 25 people. The Mongol army went from door to door and evicted all the inhabitants outside the city walls. In an orderly and systematic fashion each soldier selected their 25 civilians and marched them off. The soldier then selected one of the civilians to help him tie the hands and feet of his group, binding his assistant last. The soldier would then cut the throat of his 25, cut their ear off and put the ear in a bag and let the 25 victims bleed out. They would take the bag of ears to their CO who would count the ears to confirm each soldier had killed their allotted number. The soldier would then return to his victim and decapitate them and toss them into separate piles for men, women and children. Some of this hills of heads were massive in size and could be seen for miles. Which the Mongols meant as a warning. This was all done with frightful efficiency and the odd thing is that time and time again when the Mongols committed these atrocities the civilian victims meekly complied with their own executions. Rarely was there ever a mass stampede of civilians trying to escape and they knew they were going to all be killed.

 

[Cypress]

Quite simply they were a Shepard/ Herding culture who disdained farmers and according to their logic the easiest way to convert an agricultural region to a pastoral one was to depopulate it. It was just brutal but absolutely logical that the best way to end resistance was to kill everyone who resisted and they did so with frightening efficiency.

If a Mongol Army approached a city and that city immediately opened the gates and surrender the Mongols were usually very generous on their terms. They might eliminate the ruling political class but often didn’t and as long as they paid tribute and obeyed the few laws the mongols established they pretty much left you alone.

If you resisted or rebelled the often killed everyone right down to the dogs and cats, then would come back a few weeks later to kill what few survivors had escaped the original massacre. Needless to say the propaganda value this gave the Mongols often worked in their favor.

There’s no doubt that in pure numbers and on a proportional basis Ghengis was the greatest mass murderer in human history.

The one I mentioned earlier the mongols started early one morning. Each soldier was assigned to kill 25 people. The Mongol army went from door to door and evicted all the inhabitants outside the city walls. In an orderly and systematic fashion each soldier selected their 25 civilians and marched them off. The soldier then selected one of the civilians to help him tie the hands and feet of his group, binding his assistant last. The soldier would then cut the throat of his 25, cut their ear off and put the ear in a bag and let the 25 victims bleed out. They would take the bag of ears to their CO who would count the ears to confirm each soldier had killed their allotted number. The soldier would then return to his victim and decapitate them and toss them into separate piles for men, women and children. Some of this hills of heads were massive in size and could be seen for miles. Which the Mongols meant as a warning. This was all done with frightful efficiency and the odd thing is that time and time again when the Mongols committed these atrocities the civilian victims meekly complied with their own executions. Rarely was there ever a mass stampede of civilians trying to escape and they knew they were going to all be killed.

Nice work, chap.

The Chinese were always surrendering to tribes and confederations of the central Asian steppes, which always seemed odd to me because the Song and Ming dynasties must have outnumbered the central Asian confederations in population by an order of 20 to 1 at least. I assume the Mongols, Jerchen, and Manchus must have been able to leverage internal weaknesses in China

 

[Quasar44]

Mongols annilated the Arab World
They found the Europeans to be too poor to care about

Mongols did restart world trade ( first time since fall of Rome)

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Mongols annilated the Arab World
They found the Europeans to be too poor to care about

Mongols did restart world trade ( first time since fall of Rome)

They did but they killed far more Chinese.

Though you can’t really underscore the impact the Mongols had on the Muslim
World as it took until modernity for them to recover their numbers. Close to 500 years.