stop exaggerating the war on cops

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/police-shootings_n_3038938.html?utm_hp_ref=the-agitator

The recent killings of two prosecutors in Texas, a Colorado Department of Corrections official and a sheriff in West Virginia have law enforcement groups and the media once again buzzing about an alleged "war on cops" or, in some instances, a broader trend toward violent anti-government sentiment.

For example, one effect of false perceptions about the dangers of policing that I've noted before is that they can sway public debate on issues like police budgets, police use of force, police militarization and what sort of accountability cops should face when they're accused of violating someone's civil rights. Exaggerating the threat that cops face can make policymakers and public officials more reluctant to hold bad cops accountable or more willing to outfit police departments with weapons and equipment better suited for warfare.

This would explain why police groups tend to perpetuate the myth. But why does the media credulously report their narrative? Part of it is probably just laziness -- a lack of will or interest in seeing whether the claims are backed up by any data. The "war on cops" meme also fits the "if it bleeds, it leads" idea. "While this officer's murder is tragic, generally speaking, law enforcement officers are safer on the job today than they've been in 50 years" just isn't as interesting as "This may be part of a growing trend of cop killing."

Much of the media also appear to be infatuated with the idea that we're in the midst of a dramatic rise in anti-government, anti-authority, pro-militia, right-wing, white nationalist -- pick your extremism -- violence in America, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. (Just last weekend the Los Angeles Times ran a front-page report on the "sovereign citizen" movement, a group that authorities say is responsible for six deaths in 12 years.) In the interest of fairness -- or some might say false equivalence -- I'll note the conservative media seem just as enamored with the idea of a growing threat of violence from Muslim extremists and environmental radicals, again despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

But there's a more pernicious effect of exaggerating the threat to police officers. There was a consensus among these people that constantly telling cops how dangerous their jobs are is affecting their mindset. It reinforces the soldier mentality already relentlessly drummed into cops' heads by politicians' habit of declaring "war" on things. Browse the online bulletin boards at sites like PoliceOne (where users must be credentialed law enforcement to comment), and you'll see a lot of hostility toward everyone who isn't in law enforcement, as well as various versions of the sentiment "I'll do whatever I need to get home safe at night." That's a mantra that speaks more to self-preservation than public service.

Last week I had lunch with a certified expert in police use of force -- a guy who teaches classes to police about how and when to use force, how much to use, and under what circumstances. I'm fairly cynical, and I've just written a book that covers much of this ground, but I was still surprised by what he told me. In too many use-of-force classes, he said, cops aren't taught about appropriate vs. inappropriate force so much as they're taught what to say and do to justify whatever force they've already used. In other words, the courses aren't about training, they're about ass-covering. Today, these courses stress officer safety above all else -- including the civil and constitutional rights and the safety of the citizens the police are supposed to be serving. They teach cops to use more force, sooner, more often, and how to justify it after the fact.

Back in 2008, a SWAT team in Lima, Ohio, raided the home of a suspected drug dealer. During the raid, one SWAT officer perfunctorily shot and killed the suspect's dogs. As he did, another officer was ascending a flight of steps in the home. That officer mistook his colleague's gunfire for hostile fire and, seeing some shadows coming out of an upstairs bedroom, he opened fire into that room. Inside was 26-year-old Tarika Wilson. She was on her knees, as she'd been instructed. She had one arm in the air and the other holding her year-old son. Wilson was killed. Her son lost a hand.

Officer Joseph Chavalia was charged with manslaughter (a pretty rare thing in these cases). At his trial, one use-of-force expert -- someone who trains police officers on when it's appropriate to use force -- actually testified that not only had Chavalia not done anything wrong, but if anything he was too slow to fire on the unarmed woman and her child. (Chavalia was acquitted.) This is the training too many police officers get today -- shoot first, worry about what you're shooting at later. [/QUOTE]

Zappa must have been right. cops are trained to shoot innocent people.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/police-shootings_n_3038938.html?utm_hp_ref=the-agitator

The recent killings of two prosecutors in Texas, a Colorado Department of Corrections official and a sheriff in West Virginia have law enforcement groups and the media once again buzzing about an alleged "war on cops" or, in some instances, a broader trend toward violent anti-government sentiment.

For example, one effect of false perceptions about the dangers of policing that I've noted before is that they can sway public debate on issues like police budgets, police use of force, police militarization and what sort of accountability cops should face when they're accused of violating someone's civil rights. Exaggerating the threat that cops face can make policymakers and public officials more reluctant to hold bad cops accountable or more willing to outfit police departments with weapons and equipment better suited for warfare.

This would explain why police groups tend to perpetuate the myth. But why does the media credulously report their narrative? Part of it is probably just laziness -- a lack of will or interest in seeing whether the claims are backed up by any data. The "war on cops" meme also fits the "if it bleeds, it leads" idea. "While this officer's murder is tragic, generally speaking, law enforcement officers are safer on the job today than they've been in 50 years" just isn't as interesting as "This may be part of a growing trend of cop killing."

Much of the media also appear to be infatuated with the idea that we're in the midst of a dramatic rise in anti-government, anti-authority, pro-militia, right-wing, white nationalist -- pick your extremism -- violence in America, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. (Just last weekend the Los Angeles Times ran a front-page report on the "sovereign citizen" movement, a group that authorities say is responsible for six deaths in 12 years.) In the interest of fairness -- or some might say false equivalence -- I'll note the conservative media seem just as enamored with the idea of a growing threat of violence from Muslim extremists and environmental radicals, again despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

But there's a more pernicious effect of exaggerating the threat to police officers. There was a consensus among these people that constantly telling cops how dangerous their jobs are is affecting their mindset. It reinforces the soldier mentality already relentlessly drummed into cops' heads by politicians' habit of declaring "war" on things. Browse the online bulletin boards at sites like PoliceOne (where users must be credentialed law enforcement to comment), and you'll see a lot of hostility toward everyone who isn't in law enforcement, as well as various versions of the sentiment "I'll do whatever I need to get home safe at night." That's a mantra that speaks more to self-preservation than public service.

Last week I had lunch with a certified expert in police use of force -- a guy who teaches classes to police about how and when to use force, how much to use, and under what circumstances. I'm fairly cynical, and I've just written a book that covers much of this ground, but I was still surprised by what he told me. In too many use-of-force classes, he said, cops aren't taught about appropriate vs. inappropriate force so much as they're taught what to say and do to justify whatever force they've already used. In other words, the courses aren't about training, they're about ass-covering. Today, these courses stress officer safety above all else -- including the civil and constitutional rights and the safety of the citizens the police are supposed to be serving. They teach cops to use more force, sooner, more often, and how to justify it after the fact.

Back in 2008, a SWAT team in Lima, Ohio, raided the home of a suspected drug dealer. During the raid, one SWAT officer perfunctorily shot and killed the suspect's dogs. As he did, another officer was ascending a flight of steps in the home. That officer mistook his colleague's gunfire for hostile fire and, seeing some shadows coming out of an upstairs bedroom, he opened fire into that room. Inside was 26-year-old Tarika Wilson. She was on her knees, as she'd been instructed. She had one arm in the air and the other holding her year-old son. Wilson was killed. Her son lost a hand.

Officer Joseph Chavalia was charged with manslaughter (a pretty rare thing in these cases). At his trial, one use-of-force expert -- someone who trains police officers on when it's appropriate to use force -- actually testified that not only had Chavalia not done anything wrong, but if anything he was too slow to fire on the unarmed woman and her child. (Chavalia was acquitted.) This is the training too many police officers get today -- shoot first, worry about what you're shooting at later.

Do you still hate cops now that most police unions supported the authoritarian Party of Trump?
 
I hate the lack of police accountability

i especially hate police unions. they are lawless collaborators to an organized crime syndicate
Doesn't the vast majority of that come under the heading of "State's Rights" with a subheading of "Municipal rights"?

Since they supported Trump, I have to agree with you. :thup:
 
SCOTUS defines the Constitution. Thanks to Trump, and your support of him, SCOTUS leans Right. Why complain about the consequences of your actions?
SCOTUS is governed by the Constitution, they do not define the Constitution. It is the height of stupidity to believe that the founders would write a document that restricts and limits the federal government and then hand over the power to define those restrictions and limits to that very government.
 
SCOTUS is governed by the Constitution, they do not define the Constitution. It is the height of stupidity to believe that the founders would write a document that restricts and limits the federal government and then hand over the power to define those restrictions and limits to that very government.
I'm not a Sea Lawyer like so many JPP MAGAts but my understanding is that they do:

The best-known power of the Supreme Court is judicial review, or the ability of the Court to declare a Legislative or Executive act in violation of the Constitution, is not found within the text of the Constitution itself. The Court established this doctrine in the case of Marbury v. Madison (1803)...

....The Supreme Court plays a very important role in our constitutional system of government. First, as the highest court in the land, it is the court of last resort for those looking for justice. Second, due to its power of judicial review, it plays an essential role in ensuring that each branch of government recognizes the limits of its own power. Third, it protects civil rights and liberties by striking down laws that violate the Constitution. Finally, it sets appropriate limits on democratic government by ensuring that popular majorities cannot pass laws that harm and/or take undue advantage of unpopular minorities. In essence, it serves to ensure that the changing views of a majority do not undermine the fundamental values common to all Americans, i.e., freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and due process of law.
 
I'm not a Sea Lawyer like so many JPP MAGAts but my understanding is that they do:

The best-known power of the Supreme Court is judicial review, or the ability of the Court to declare a Legislative or Executive act in violation of the Constitution, is not found within the text of the Constitution itself. The Court established this doctrine in the case of Marbury v. Madison (1803).
the US Constitution was written by we the people. Ratified before the marbury decision. so how does a decision AFTER ratification allow the SCOTUS to change the Constitutional powers that the judiciary has and redefine the restrictions and limitations put upon it?
 
the US Constitution was written by we the people. Ratified before the marbury decision. so how does a decision AFTER ratification allow the SCOTUS to change the Constitutional powers that the judiciary has and redefine the restrictions and limitations put upon it?
I don't know that they have. Do you have any examples of Trump's activist Justices changing the rules?

Again, I'm not a lawyer so it would be helpful if you provided factual examples and explained how they apply. TIA
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/police-shootings_n_3038938.html?utm_hp_ref=the-agitator

The recent killings of two prosecutors in Texas, a Colorado Department of Corrections official and a sheriff in West Virginia have law enforcement groups and the media once again buzzing about an alleged "war on cops" or, in some instances, a broader trend toward violent anti-government sentiment.

For example, one effect of false perceptions about the dangers of policing that I've noted before is that they can sway public debate on issues like police budgets, police use of force, police militarization and what sort of accountability cops should face when they're accused of violating someone's civil rights. Exaggerating the threat that cops face can make policymakers and public officials more reluctant to hold bad cops accountable or more willing to outfit police departments with weapons and equipment better suited for warfare.

This would explain why police groups tend to perpetuate the myth. But why does the media credulously report their narrative? Part of it is probably just laziness -- a lack of will or interest in seeing whether the claims are backed up by any data. The "war on cops" meme also fits the "if it bleeds, it leads" idea. "While this officer's murder is tragic, generally speaking, law enforcement officers are safer on the job today than they've been in 50 years" just isn't as interesting as "This may be part of a growing trend of cop killing."

Much of the media also appear to be infatuated with the idea that we're in the midst of a dramatic rise in anti-government, anti-authority, pro-militia, right-wing, white nationalist -- pick your extremism -- violence in America, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. (Just last weekend the Los Angeles Times ran a front-page report on the "sovereign citizen" movement, a group that authorities say is responsible for six deaths in 12 years.) In the interest of fairness -- or some might say false equivalence -- I'll note the conservative media seem just as enamored with the idea of a growing threat of violence from Muslim extremists and environmental radicals, again despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

But there's a more pernicious effect of exaggerating the threat to police officers. There was a consensus among these people that constantly telling cops how dangerous their jobs are is affecting their mindset. It reinforces the soldier mentality already relentlessly drummed into cops' heads by politicians' habit of declaring "war" on things. Browse the online bulletin boards at sites like PoliceOne (where users must be credentialed law enforcement to comment), and you'll see a lot of hostility toward everyone who isn't in law enforcement, as well as various versions of the sentiment "I'll do whatever I need to get home safe at night." That's a mantra that speaks more to self-preservation than public service.

Last week I had lunch with a certified expert in police use of force -- a guy who teaches classes to police about how and when to use force, how much to use, and under what circumstances. I'm fairly cynical, and I've just written a book that covers much of this ground, but I was still surprised by what he told me. In too many use-of-force classes, he said, cops aren't taught about appropriate vs. inappropriate force so much as they're taught what to say and do to justify whatever force they've already used. In other words, the courses aren't about training, they're about ass-covering. Today, these courses stress officer safety above all else -- including the civil and constitutional rights and the safety of the citizens the police are supposed to be serving. They teach cops to use more force, sooner, more often, and how to justify it after the fact.

Back in 2008, a SWAT team in Lima, Ohio, raided the home of a suspected drug dealer. During the raid, one SWAT officer perfunctorily shot and killed the suspect's dogs. As he did, another officer was ascending a flight of steps in the home. That officer mistook his colleague's gunfire for hostile fire and, seeing some shadows coming out of an upstairs bedroom, he opened fire into that room. Inside was 26-year-old Tarika Wilson. She was on her knees, as she'd been instructed. She had one arm in the air and the other holding her year-old son. Wilson was killed. Her son lost a hand.

Officer Joseph Chavalia was charged with manslaughter (a pretty rare thing in these cases). At his trial, one use-of-force expert -- someone who trains police officers on when it's appropriate to use force -- actually testified that not only had Chavalia not done anything wrong, but if anything he was too slow to fire on the unarmed woman and her child. (Chavalia was acquitted.) This is the training too many police officers get today -- shoot first, worry about what you're shooting at later.

Zappa must have been right. cops are trained to shoot innocent people.
[/QUOTE]

Urban cops have a shitty job. Your last sentence is incorrect and quite the opposite is true. The last thing they want is the use of lethal force. It is a nightmare for themselves as well as the community. In 2020 there were about 54 million citizen contacts with police and 2% involved the threat or use of force.
Do they have racial bias? Hell yes. Hop in for a ride along with your local police some night. Better yet find your cable channel REELZ and get to their on patrol live program. While watching remember, the first version was removed from cable because it was 'too racially biased' so they do their utmost to be non biased.
This will give you a very good look at the bullshit these cops deal with on a daily basis.
Yes, there are bad cops but some were made bad by the environment they are forced to patrol.
 
I don't know that they have. Do you have any examples of Trump's activist Justices changing the rules?

Again, I'm not a lawyer so it would be helpful if you provided factual examples and explained how they apply. TIA
If you don't know what they have, you should sit back and learn. constitutional usurpation has been happening way before trump, so scuttle your TDS for a bit. what do you need examples of, specifically?
 
Urban cops have a shitty job. Your last sentence is incorrect and quite the opposite is true. The last thing they want is the use of lethal force. It is a nightmare for themselves as well as the community. In 2020 there were about 54 million citizen contacts with police and 2% involved the threat or use of force.
Do they have racial bias? Hell yes. Hop in for a ride along with your local police some night. Better yet find your cable channel REELZ and get to their on patrol live program. While watching remember, the first version was removed from cable because it was 'too racially biased' so they do their utmost to be non biased.
This will give you a very good look at the bullshit these cops deal with on a daily basis.
Yes, there are bad cops but some were made bad by the environment they are forced to patrol.

questionable lethal force is a nightmare for them. The problem stems from the numerous protections and extra rights that government agents are granted that allows lethal force with little oversight. If you lived in reality, you'd know this.
 
questionable lethal force is a nightmare for them. The problem stems from the numerous protections and extra rights that government agents are granted that allows lethal force with little oversight. If you lived in reality, you'd know this.
I work with cops and firefighters, I fully understand their challenges. Their protections have been eroded. Urban cities have had their police officer decimated. Again, there are crooked cops that go out seeking violence but their numbers are declining due to body cams and outside cellphone videos.
I am not arguing with you, I am just saying the vast majority of them want to go home every night not having to face a review board the following day.
 
If you don't know what they have, you should sit back and learn. constitutional usurpation has been happening way before trump, so scuttle your TDS for a bit. what do you need examples of, specifically?
Soooo...no examples. Just opinions of an ex-Threeper. Got it. Thanks.
 
I work with cops and firefighters, I fully understand their challenges. Their protections have been eroded. Urban cities have had their police officer decimated. Again, there are crooked cops that go out seeking violence but their numbers are declining due to body cams and outside cellphone videos.
I am not arguing with you, I am just saying the vast majority of them want to go home every night not having to face a review board the following day.
Do you live in a facility with violent residents and firebugs?
 
Garrity rights, qualified immunity, union legal representation, justice system bias, societal bias.........

cops have far too many protections that allow them to get away with murder.
Tell that to Derek Chauvin and the Memphis Five among others.

Your paranoia is interesting. You hate the US government yet support a wannabe dictator. WTFO?
 
Back
Top