Tax System Explained...

Damocles

Accedo!
Staff member
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
 
How dare you point out the truth in how our current system works!

Why do you hate the poor and support the uber wealthy?

Gosh.
 
If the poorest man in the group made 10K a year and the richest man made 1 billion a year, and the poorest man paid 1 dollar and the richest man paid 56, then, well, your comparison would make sense.
 
If the poorest man in the group made 10K a year and the richest man made 1 billion a year, and the poorest man paid 1 dollar and the richest man paid 56, then, well, your comparison would make sense.

Please do elaborate dear little Water....just how is it that Damo's example doesn't make sense as it is?
 
Please do elaborate dear little Water....just how is it that Damo's example doesn't make sense as it is?

Please tell me how it does make sense. No rational person can say it doesn't because the comparisons are terrible. It's a right-wing fantasy, in which the rich are oppressed by the evil black welfare recipients.
 
Please tell me how it does make sense. No rational person can say it doesn't because the comparisons are terrible. It's a right-wing fantasy, in which the rich are oppressed by the evil black welfare recipients.

It makes sense because that is exactly how our system works right now. The wealthiest 10% in the country pay over half of the taxes. Just as in the example. Just as the example states, the bottom 40% pay no taxes. Or would you like to somehow explain to us why it is that you think it is otherwise the case.
 
It makes sense because that is exactly how our system works right now. The wealthiest 10% in the country pay over half of the taxes. Just as in the example. Just as the example states, the bottom 40% pay no taxes. Or would you like to somehow explain to us why it is that you think it is otherwise the case.

And the wealthiest 10% make thousands of times what the rest of us make. I'm not getting your point. I'd be glad to pay 10% extra taxes if it meant I was a billionaire.
 
And I thought they got out on all those loopholes that you use to defend your flat tax system anyway?

I've got an idea.

Keep the current structure, and remove the loopholes. Common sense.
 
And I thought they got out on all those loopholes that you use to defend your flat tax system anyway?

I've got an idea.

Keep the current structure, and remove the loopholes. Common sense.

Explain your first sentence above. There are no loopholes in the flat tax system. None. I did say that we should incorporate a standard deduction to protect the low income families/individuals from paying any income taxes. But other than that there would be no deductions or loopholes. It would be a truly progressive tax system.

Personally, I would add a special temporary tax bracket for those making over $1mm a year that would be dedicated solely to reducing the national debt. Until the debt is paid off it stays in place.

Would you truly oppose that? Two brackets.... 20% on all income between 30k and $1mm, 30% on all income over $1mm (the additional 10% being used to pay down debt).

Warren Buffett admits his effective tax rate is under 20%, as was Bush's and Kerry's and most other wealthy individuals. The flat tax would INCREASE their taxes Water, but do so in a very clear way. It would be transparent. Everyone would be able to figure out their own taxes. It would tax all sources of income in the same manner. What exactly do you oppose in that structure?
 
Warren Buffet has such low taxes because most of his wealth is in capital gains rather than income from labor. It's not exactly a "loophole" - it was there deliberately. And there are a lot of people out there who believe that capital gains shouldn't even be taxed.
 
Warren Buffet has such low taxes because most of his wealth is in capital gains rather than income from labor. It's not exactly a "loophole" - it was there deliberately. And there are a lot of people out there who believe that capital gains shouldn't even be taxed.
They are maroons. That is one of the few gains that actually would be taxed under the definition of "income" according to current law.
 
Warren Buffet has such low taxes because most of his wealth is in capital gains rather than income from labor. It's not exactly a "loophole" - it was there deliberately. And there are a lot of people out there who believe that capital gains shouldn't even be taxed.

No, it is not a loophole Water, it is written directly into our so called progressive tax code. Which is why I explained to you that cap gains would be taxed as any other income under the flat tax code. It is what would make it progressive rather than the current regressive system.
 
No, it is not a loophole Water, it is written directly into our so called progressive tax code. Which is why I explained to you that cap gains would be taxed as any other income under the flat tax code. It is what would make it progressive rather than the current regressive system.

But I thought you were just complaining about how much the rich pay?
 
But I thought you were just complaining about how much the rich pay?

I was not complaining Water. I was stating that Damo is indeed correct. That is how our current system works. If you jack the rates up too high, they are less incentivized to stay. If you make it so that everyone pays the same percentage, no one is going to complain, because it is FAIR.

I also do not think that anyone would oppose the second bracket I suggested IF it was truly dedicated to paying down the national debt. Because in paying down the debt, it strengthens the dollar and the overall economy which is good for everyone.
 
It's not that unfair considereing that man ten and his friends create all money and run the government and give no bid contracts to the corporations they also run.

How Dare I point out the truth.
 
Its a wealth redistribution plan. IM ok with that in general. what im not ok with is who belongs in what categories. I say it depends on where the man lives.
 
Its a wealth redistribution plan. IM ok with that in general. what im not ok with is who belongs in what categories. I say it depends on where the man lives.

Yeah, especially need to take notice of those that live in the Boston area. Especially if they are Patriots fans. Gotta take it easy on those poor souls who didn't kill themselves after that embarassing loss. Pissing away a perfect season...... Priceless.
 
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