The Concept of Hell

[NiftyNiblick]

Obviously, I don't believe in Hell.
Eternal damnation for the transgressions of a brief, finite lifetime is beyond ridiculous.

However, the concept of Hell was clearly manifested with a certain type of person in mind,
and today, in our time, the perfect example of that person is a Trump supporter.

Today's trumpanzee is either a criminal, a supporter of criminals,
or, at the very least, a criminal sympathizer.

The core values closest to their rotted hearts
are racism, xenophobia, misogyny, theocratic superstition, and anti-intellectualism.

The Trump supporter has major, debilitating deficiencies in every aspect of mental status--
intelligence, wisdom, sanity, and morality.

And this is why Hell cannot exist.
Nobody would willing choose these severe genetic defects.
As easy as it is to hate a trumpanzee--

I, for one, have a difficult time imagining NOT doing it--

it probably isn't their fault.
We can't blame a cockroach for not being born a unicorn.

 

[goat]

Obviously, I don't believe in Hell.
Eternal damnation for the transgressions of a brief, finite lifetime is beyond ridiculous.

However, the concept of Hell was clearly manifested with a certain type of person in mind,
and today, in our time, the perfect example of that person is a Trump supporter.

Today's trumpanzee is either a criminal, a supporter of criminals,
or, at the very least, a criminal sympathizer.

The core values closest to their rotted hearts
are racism, xenophobia, misogyny, theocratic superstition, and anti-intellectualism.

The Trump supporter has major, debilitating deficiencies in every aspect of mental status--
intelligence, wisdom, sanity, and morality.

And this is why Hell cannot exist.
Nobody would willing choose these severe genetic defects.
As easy as it is to hate a trumpanzee--

I, for one, have a difficult time imagining NOT doing it--

it probably isn't their fault.
We can't blame a cockroach for not being born a unicorn.

We are witnessing a political realignment. It looks a lot like 1968 to me. White upper-middle class university students ended the war in Vietnam and changed the course of history.

Old white men have to go to hell before the Global South comes into power.

 

[Kafka]

Obviously, I don't believe in Hell.
Eternal damnation for the transgressions of a brief, finite lifetime is beyond ridiculous.

However, the concept of Hell was clearly manifested with a certain type of person in mind,
and today, in our time, the perfect example of that person is a Trump supporter.

Today's trumpanzee is either a criminal, a supporter of criminals,
or, at the very least, a criminal sympathizer.

The core values closest to their rotted hearts
are racism, xenophobia, misogyny, theocratic superstition, and anti-intellectualism.

The Trump supporter has major, debilitating deficiencies in every aspect of mental status--
intelligence, wisdom, sanity, and morality.

And this is why Hell cannot exist.
Nobody would willing choose these severe genetic defects.
As easy as it is to hate a trumpanzee--

I, for one, have a difficult time imagining NOT doing it--

it probably isn't their fault.
We can't blame a cockroach for not being born a unicorn.

I know I"ve been just as bad as anyone else in denigrating the MAGA folks. And I probably will continue to do so. But there are times when I wonder if, perhaps, both sides could dial back the rhetoric for a second and actually try to APPRECIATE the other side's view, even if we don't agree with it.

Trump sparks something in Americans. Either we despise the surficiality and mendacity of Trump or we love the strongman who says it like it is and stands up against wokeness.

But in order for us to actually mend the nation short of the bloodshed we are surely running full speed toward now, we need to really try to see the other side's view without resorting to simply writing it off to the other side being <insert whatever we disrespect here>.

Trump supporters may very well be less inclined to be the sober, reflective and painfully self aware of their limitations, but they are still functioning adults and it would help if we understood WHY they are rubbed wrong by things like Woke and other forms of progressive "inclusion". SURELY everyone must value being included!

I come from the rural midwest. I didn't share a lot in common with my peers, I was always kind of a weirdo, but these people are good people. Rural America DOES feel less well represented in media. So after a while they seek to affirm their own identity and uniqueness. And as folks on the Left drift over further and further into an insular view of privilege and Coastal lifestyles, the need for the folks in the middle to express their need to be accepted for who they are manifests in a form of aggressive backlash to anything that even mildly reeks of coastal elite.

Sure you can point out that Trump is the perfect avatar of coastal elite who has probably never set foot in rural America without it being some special need or by accident, but he is nothing if not a master showman. He and his team have crafted an image to play to that disaffectation of the "flyover states".

Once the polarization starts it only gets more extreme with people of good will on either side slowly being shoehorned into a more extreme version of their own beliefs.

In reality we are a flatter distribution than that. It's just the RHETORIC that is driving the wedge now. These people who strangely support someone I cannot understand, who seems to violate every value held by his base, are still decent and honest people on the whole. They are experiencing a portion of the economy that makes them feel left behind and stressed. People under perceived duress will always rush toward a "simple solution" which is exactly what showman Trump has crafted for them. A simple target to coalesce against. Solutions that sound obvious (but are unworkable in reality) are always going to be attractive if you don't necessarily know the details that will make the solution not work.

I don't know if we on the Left have the answers. All I know is prefer the vibe of the Left. The drive, however loony it can be expressed, to be accepting of all is a valuable ideal. The wish to leverage the power of ALL of us to help SOME of us is also something I think worthy. But I am privilieged. If I lose sight of that I will likely lose sight of why I even need to understand the other side.

 

[Kafka]

We are witnessing a political realignment. It looks a lot like 1968 to me. White upper-middle class university students ended the war in Vietnam and changed the course of history.

Old white men have to go to hell before the Global South comes into power.

There's somewhat of a cottage industry popping up with various authors like Fareed Zakaria talking about the possible shift in global power away from the US. I have not yet read his book but it is intriguing.

We in the West and predominantly in the northern hemisphere have dominated much of the earth for a few hundred years now. But there has always been the potential for other countries to move to the fore. And I honestly feel like we in the developed world are busy ceding our position to others as we devolve into internecine squabbles and tearing ourselves apart.

While not a "Global South" country, China will probably be next in line to "run the world" for a while as we devolve into ourselves. I don't know if I like that world but I'm obviously biased. I fear China will be more openly ruthless in pursuit and maintenance of power. We in the West have CERTAINLY been brutal around the world and treated weaker nations horribly, but we have also been a force for good. China has an enormous history and they, too, have brought good to the world. But the current government of China does not appear to share the ideals we have.

But I guess it's all the same anyway. When you're the one holding the steering wheel you feel in control and you are sure you are driving the right way. You always feel bad when someone else takes control of the wheel and you are pretty certain they are going to run the car off into the ditch.

Either way it won't matter much one way or the other. We are on a razor's edge and seemingly ready to fall off into oblivion. All of our own doing for the most part.

Le sigh.

 

[goat]

There's somewhat of a cottage industry popping up with various authors like Fareed Zakaria talking about the possible shift in global power away from the US. I have not yet read his book but it is intriguing.

We in the West and predominantly in the northern hemisphere have dominated much of the earth for a few hundred years now. But there has always been the potential for other countries to move to the fore. And I honestly feel like we in the developed world are busy ceding our position to others as we devolve into internecine squabbles and tearing ourselves apart.

While not a "Global South" country, China will probably be next in line to "run the world" for a while as we devolve into ourselves. I don't know if I like that world but I'm obviously biased. I fear China will be more openly ruthless in pursuit and maintenance of power. We in the West have CERTAINLY been brutal around the world and treated weaker nations horribly, but we have also been a force for good. China has an enormous history and they, too, have brought good to the world. But the current government of China does not appear to share the ideals we have.

But I guess it's all the same anyway. When you're the one holding the steering wheel you feel in control and you are sure you are driving the right way. You always feel bad when someone else takes control of the wheel and you are pretty certain they are going to run the car off into the ditch.

Either way it won't matter much one way or the other. We are on a razor's edge and seemingly ready to fall off into oblivion. All of our own doing for the most part.

Le sigh.

Hebrews brought the concept of hell back with them from their exile in Babylon. Empires have controlled the trade route from Asia into Africa and Europe for thousands of years. Possibly 10s of thousands of years.

China's belt and road initiative makes them the leader in the Global South movement, which also has to include Russia because the world is looking to them for protection from the white satan.

 

[Kafka]

Hebrews brought the concept of hell back with them from their exile in Babylon.

Actually I was under the impression from reading the book "Heaven and Hell" by Bart Ehrmann that the majority of the concept of hell and the concept of "justice after death" was largely due to the influence of the Greeks on the region. Perhaps I am forgetting the role of the Babylonian exile.

China's belt and road initiative makes them the leader in the Global South movement, which also has to include Russia because the world is looking to them for protection from the white satan.

Yeah the Chinese are DEFINITELY becoming more expansionist. As you note the Belt and Road initiative is getting them into countries all over the world where they wish to have some influence. And in a sense it's kind of brilliant. We in the West did much of our expansion in less "progressive" times and we tended to do it at the point of a bayonet, the Chinese are clever and going in and building up the infrastructure of many of these developing countries and forming a bond (now granted, I have little actual faith that China is doing this for altruistic reasons...no, I"m pretty sure they are simply gobbling up control of critical resources and all the benefits that devolve to these nations they are "helping" may readily dry up when they are "in the fold", but I don't know.

 

[goat]

Actually I was under the impression from reading the book "Heaven and Hell" by Bart Ehrmann that the majority of the concept of hell and the concept of "justice after death" was largely due to the influence of the Greeks on the region. Perhaps I am forgetting the role of the Babylonian exile.



Yeah the Chinese are DEFINITELY becoming more expansionist. As you note the Belt and Road initiative is getting them into countries all over the world where they wish to have some influence. And in a sense it's kind of brilliant. We in the West did much of our expansion in less "progressive" times and we tended to do it at the point of a bayonet, the Chinese are clever and going in and building up the infrastructure of many of these developing countries and forming a bond (now granted, I have little actual faith that China is doing this for altruistic reasons...no, I"m pretty sure they are simply gobbling up control of critical resources and all the benefits that devolve to these nations they are "helping" may readily dry up when they are "in the fold", but I don't know.

I have to trust my memory on what I read until it starts proving me wrong.

Poor countries are begging China to come in and save them from the hell of the IMF and world bank. Turns out that China has a better understanding of capitalism than their competition in the west.

 

[Kafka]

I have to trust my memory on what I read until it starts proving me wrong.

Poor countries are begging China to come in and save them from the hell of the IMF and world bank. Turns out that China has a better understanding of capitalism than their competition in the west.

I think China actually is being quite cleverly strategic without resorting to any sort of militarism to achieve the goal. I don't think it will necessarily be a better "choice" for the countries involved in the long run but kudos to them for a good strategy.

 

[goat]

I think China actually is being quite cleverly strategic without resorting to any sort of militarism to achieve the goal. I don't think it will necessarily be a better "choice" for the countries involved in the long run but kudos to them for a good strategy.

The world at least has an option now. That is a move in the right direction. Putin and Xi are keeping the world from doing anything crazy until after the US election in November. Why is that? Why is the world waiting to see who the deep state anoints potus?

 

[Kafka]

The world at least has an option now. That is a move in the right direction. Putin and Xi are keeping the world from doing anything crazy until after the US election in November. Why is that? Why is the world waiting to see who the deep state anoints potus?

The last human I think I would trust with anything is Vladimir Putin. Xi is another matter. He seems to have the soul of a brutal authoritarian but right now I think the larger Chinese government sees the value in maintaining a somewhat softer hand so as not to upset the economic apple cart for themselves just yet. But clearly they have some unpleasant plans (cf Taiwan, Tibet, Oppression of the Uyghurs, etc.).

The world is heading into a new era of strongmen authoritarians. That's not a good thing.

 

[goat]

The last human I think I would trust with anything is Vladimir Putin. Xi is another matter. He seems to have the soul of a brutal authoritarian but right now I think the larger Chinese government sees the value in maintaining a somewhat softer hand so as not to upset the economic apple cart for themselves just yet. But clearly they have some unpleasant plans (cf Taiwan, Tibet, Oppression of the Uyghurs, etc.).

The world is heading into a new era of strongmen authoritarians. That's not a good thing.

The economic apple cart has been weaponized by the west so it's being redesigned as a better fit for the 21st century. Europe and the US will have to adapt or die.

 

[Yakuda]

I know I"ve been just as bad as anyone else in denigrating the MAGA folks. And I probably will continue to do so. But there are times when I wonder if, perhaps, both sides could dial back the rhetoric for a second and actually try to APPRECIATE the other side's view, even if we don't agree with it.

Trump sparks something in Americans. Either we despise the surficiality and mendacity of Trump or we love the strongman who says it like it is and stands up against wokeness.

But in order for us to actually mend the nation short of the bloodshed we are surely running full speed toward now, we need to really try to see the other side's view without resorting to simply writing it off to the other side being <insert whatever we disrespect here>.

Trump supporters may very well be less inclined to be the sober, reflective and painfully self aware of their limitations, but they are still functioning adults and it would help if we understood WHY they are rubbed wrong by things like Woke and other forms of progressive "inclusion". SURELY everyone must value being included!

I come from the rural midwest. I didn't share a lot in common with my peers, I was always kind of a weirdo, but these people are good people. Rural America DOES feel less well represented in media. So after a while they seek to affirm their own identity and uniqueness. And as folks on the Left drift over further and further into an insular view of privilege and Coastal lifestyles, the need for the folks in the middle to express their need to be accepted for who they are manifests in a form of aggressive backlash to anything that even mildly reeks of coastal elite.

Sure you can point out that Trump is the perfect avatar of coastal elite who has probably never set foot in rural America without it being some special need or by accident, but he is nothing if not a master showman. He and his team have crafted an image to play to that disaffectation of the "flyover states".

Once the polarization starts it only gets more extreme with people of good will on either side slowly being shoehorned into a more extreme version of their own beliefs.

In reality we are a flatter distribution than that. It's just the RHETORIC that is driving the wedge now. These people who strangely support someone I cannot understand, who seems to violate every value held by his base, are still decent and honest people on the whole. They are experiencing a portion of the economy that makes them feel left behind and stressed. People under perceived duress will always rush toward a "simple solution" which is exactly what showman Trump has crafted for them. A simple target to coalesce against. Solutions that sound obvious (but are unworkable in reality) are always going to be attractive if you don't necessarily know the details that will make the solution not work.

I don't know if we on the Left have the answers. All I know is prefer the vibe of the Left. The drive, however loony it can be expressed, to be accepting of all is a valuable ideal. The wish to leverage the power of ALL of us to help SOME of us is also something I think worthy. But I am privilieged. If I lose sight of that I will likely lose sight of why I even need to understand the other side.

You make some good points and sound almost intelligent for a leftist. It gives me hope. I agree that we do need to spend more time listening to the other side. I did that with this post and I got to

"I don't know if we on the Left have the answers. All I know is prefer the vibe of the Left.

I genuinely would like to ask you explain this to me. You're not sure the left has the answers but it just feels good to be a leftist is what intake away from it but would prefer to hear from you what you mean.

 

[Kafka]

I genuinely would like to ask you explain this to me. You're not sure the left has the answers but it just feels good to be a leftist is what intake away from it but would prefer to hear from you what you mean.

I am uncertain who has the REAL answers. The Left comports more with my desire to help as many Americans as possible by pooling our commonweal. I'm for improving access by all people to the benefits of living in this country. I want to see more restrictions on guns since that is what the data points to as the primary issue with our off-the-charts gun murder rate. I support single payer healthcare which will massively decrease our per capita health costs and provide a safety net to Americans.

The pollicies of the Left don't bother me one whit. When they propose tax increases I'm fine with that. You see, my wife and I have no children but we've steadily supported public education with our property taxes for about 34 years now. We will never have kids in the system but we support it and even vote occasionally to increase our taxes to improve education. That's my general philosophy toward taxation in general: you get the country you pay for. There are no free lunches.

And I'm lucky enough to be able to pay more in taxes. I wouldn't want taxes increased for people of lesser means, but I DEFINITELY want massive taxes on the ultrawealthy and I'm fine if my modest tax rate goes up.

The Right doesn't ever offer much that I agree with. I hate the overt demonization of minorities to score political points, I despise the coarseness. I disagree with giving multi multi billionaires more tax cuts. I disagree with the proposals to increase public costs by millions and millions of dollars to fix non-existent problems like "vote fraud". I disagree with the elimination of regulations (since most of them were put in place PRECISELY BECAUSE AMERICANS DEMANDED IT).


It might be that the Right has some good ideas from time to time and it might be that the Left does. It could be that the Right's approach to solving any issues we have will work, but I can't see how. Honestly cannot see how flooding the country with more guns, gutting government revenues to toady up to a couple of billionaires, eliminating all the safety guardrails on our corporations and steadily demonizing minority groups will help the nation.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I know I"ve been just as bad as anyone else in denigrating the MAGA folks. And I probably will continue to do so. But there are times when I wonder if, perhaps, both sides could dial back the rhetoric for a second and actually try to APPRECIATE the other side's view, even if we don't agree with it.

Trump sparks something in Americans. Either we despise the surficiality and mendacity of Trump or we love the strongman who says it like it is and stands up against wokeness.

But in order for us to actually mend the nation short of the bloodshed we are surely running full speed toward now, we need to really try to see the other side's view without resorting to simply writing it off to the other side being <insert whatever we disrespect here>.

Trump supporters may very well be less inclined to be the sober, reflective and painfully self aware of their limitations, but they are still functioning adults and it would help if we understood WHY they are rubbed wrong by things like Woke and other forms of progressive "inclusion". SURELY everyone must value being included!

I come from the rural midwest. I didn't share a lot in common with my peers, I was always kind of a weirdo, but these people are good people. Rural America DOES feel less well represented in media. So after a while they seek to affirm their own identity and uniqueness. And as folks on the Left drift over further and further into an insular view of privilege and Coastal lifestyles, the need for the folks in the middle to express their need to be accepted for who they are manifests in a form of aggressive backlash to anything that even mildly reeks of coastal elite.

Sure you can point out that Trump is the perfect avatar of coastal elite who has probably never set foot in rural America without it being some special need or by accident, but he is nothing if not a master showman. He and his team have crafted an image to play to that disaffectation of the "flyover states".

Once the polarization starts it only gets more extreme with people of good will on either side slowly being shoehorned into a more extreme version of their own beliefs.

In reality we are a flatter distribution than that. It's just the RHETORIC that is driving the wedge now. These people who strangely support someone I cannot understand, who seems to violate every value held by his base, are still decent and honest people on the whole. They are experiencing a portion of the economy that makes them feel left behind and stressed. People under perceived duress will always rush toward a "simple solution" which is exactly what showman Trump has crafted for them. A simple target to coalesce against. Solutions that sound obvious (but are unworkable in reality) are always going to be attractive if you don't necessarily know the details that will make the solution not work.

I don't know if we on the Left have the answers. All I know is prefer the vibe of the Left. The drive, however loony it can be expressed, to be accepting of all is a valuable ideal. The wish to leverage the power of ALL of us to help SOME of us is also something I think worthy. But I am privilieged. If I lose sight of that I will likely lose sight of why I even need to understand the other side.

Let's not overthink this.
Of course rural Middle America is under-represented in mainstream media.
Main-stream media is primarily consumed by urban people in densely populated areas.
It's not a slight.
It's responding to demand.

Further,
this urban coastal American fully believes
that conservative America is every bit as sincere as we are.

Like myself, they have values that are important to them,
but as it happens,
their values and my values are not realistically compatible.

It's not a matter of right and wrong.
Right and wrong appears very different when viewed through different social lenses.

It's a matter of different,
and it's a difference too huge in magnitude to be reconciled.

The "us and them" culture that accurately describes America
comes only as a result of us and them,
regardless of what my preferred candidate says,
actually having MORE cultural difference than similarities.

It's always been my political mantra
that there are NO moderate solutions to radical problems.

The cultural dissimilarities between people
trying to live under the same American government
in my mind
guarantee that that government will never exist in an atmosphere of domestic tranquility.

 

[Yakuda]

I am uncertain who has the REAL answers. The Left comports more with my desire to help as many Americans as possible by pooling our commonweal. I'm for improving access by all people to the benefits of living in this country. I want to see more restrictions on guns since that is what the data points to as the primary issue with our off-the-charts gun murder rate. I support single payer healthcare which will massively decrease our per capita health costs and provide a safety net to Americans.

The pollicies of the Left don't bother me one whit. When they propose tax increases I'm fine with that. You see, my wife and I have no children but we've steadily supported public education with our property taxes for about 34 years now. We will never have kids in the system but we support it and even vote occasionally to increase our taxes to improve education. That's my general philosophy toward taxation in general: you get the country you pay for. There are no free lunches.

And I'm lucky enough to be able to pay more in taxes. I wouldn't want taxes increased for people of lesser means, but I DEFINITELY want massive taxes on the ultrawealthy and I'm fine if my modest tax rate goes up.

The Right doesn't ever offer much that I agree with. I hate the overt demonization of minorities to score political points, I despise the coarseness. I disagree with giving multi multi billionaires more tax cuts. I disagree with the proposals to increase public costs by millions and millions of dollars to fix non-existent problems like "vote fraud". I disagree with the elimination of regulations (since most of them were put in place PRECISELY BECAUSE AMERICANS DEMANDED IT).


It might be that the Right has some good ideas from time to time and it might be that the Left does. It could be that the Right's approach to solving any issues we have will work, but I can't see how. Honestly cannot see how flooding the country with more guns, gutting government revenues to toady up to a couple of billionaires, eliminating all the safety guardrails on our corporations and steadily demonizing minority groups will help the nation.

You said a lot of great stuff but let's talk about one thing at a time. First I prefer effective answers to REAL answers. Maybe it's semantics. Clarify what you mean by "REAL".

More important than that though is this.comment from you

"I'm for improving access by all people to the benefits of living in this country."

You and I agree here but not by flooding across the southern border illegally. Do you at least recognize a distinction?

 

[Kafka]

You said a lot of great stuff but let's talk about one thing at a time. First I prefer effective answers to REAL answers. Maybe it's semantics. Clarify what you mean by "REAL".

I am like you and don't know everything in the future. The rest of my post speaks for itself.

More important than that though is this.comment from you

"I'm for improving access by all people to the benefits of living in this country."

You and I agree here but not by flooding across the southern border illegally. Do you at least recognize a distinction?

Yes. I also understand that the "flood" across the Southern border is not the existential threat you and the rest of the MAGA folks make it out to be. YES it could be improved, YES we would be in better shape if we were able to secure our borders.

NO it is not an existential threat to anyone. Unless you are a bottom-of-the-barrel employee at a lawn care service YOU are not losing jobs. And arguably it is the AMERICANS who hire the illegals who are making the problem worse.

There are fixes, NONE of which your side would ever consider. You seem to think that it's possible to completely and perfectly wall off the southern border. But you never once ask why Canada isn't doing the same thing by flooding into the US. The difference is Mexico is in much worse shape economically. It is AMERICANS who drive that traffic north up into our country. We want cheap farm labor, we want cheap lawn care, and we LOVE it when people work for pennies on the dollar.

You want to take someone to task for flooding America with "illegals"? Look no further than your fellow American citizens.

And at the end of the day, if you found yourself as a poor person trying to keep your children alive I bet about a million dollars you'd be breakin' laws right and left to do it.

 

[Yakuda]

I am like you and don't know everything in the future. The rest of my post speaks for itself.



Yes. I also understand that the "flood" across the Southern border is not the existential threat you and the rest of the MAGA folks make it out to be. YES it could be improved, YES we would be in better shape if we were able to secure our borders.

NO it is not an existential threat to anyone. Unless you are a bottom-of-the-barrel employee at a lawn care service YOU are not losing jobs. And arguably it is the AMERICANS who hire the illegals who are making the problem worse.

There are fixes, NONE of which your side would ever consider. You seem to think that it's possible to completely and perfectly wall off the southern border. But you never once ask why Canada isn't doing the same thing by flooding into the US. The difference is Mexico is in much worse shape economically. It is AMERICANS who drive that traffic north up into our country. We want cheap farm labor, we want cheap lawn care, and we LOVE it when people work for pennies on the dollar.

You want to take someone to task for flooding America with "illegals"? Look no further than your fellow American citizens.

And at the end of the day, if you found yourself as a poor person trying to keep your children alive I bet about a million dollars you'd be breakin' laws right and left to do it.

I may not know the future but an answer to a problem that doesn't actually solve that problem is nonsensical.

As to the border I haven't yet heard a coherent answer why we should let everyone and their uncle into the country. You don't do it at your home and there is no good reason to do it at the border.

So if my kids and I are homeless I can justify breaking into your house for food and shelter.

 

[Kafka]

As to the border I haven't yet heard a coherent answer why we should let everyone and their uncle into the country. \

Probably because literally NO ONE is proposing that.

So if my kids and I are homeless I can justify breaking into your house for food and shelter.

All I know is that if you were a poor Mexican person trying to keep your kids safe and fed you would be first in line to run across the border.

Any of us would.

 

[Yakuda]

Probably because literally NO ONE is proposing that.



All I know is that if you were a poor Mexican person trying to keep your kids safe and fed you would be first in line to run across the border.

Any of us would.

What do your think is happening at the southern border?

FACTSHEET: Final FY23 Numbers Show Worst Year at America’s Borders—Ever – Committee on Homeland Security

homeland.house.gov

So then it's perfectly ok for me to break into your house for food and shelter if my kids and I are homeless. Great! Give me your address in case I'm ever homeless.

 

[Kafka]

What do your think is happening at the southern border?

Mexico is poor and poorly run. America is rich. America has also benefited immensely from the work of these people who cross the border. Which is why this has been a real issue since probably the beginning of the 20th century. Even Ike was having to deal with this headache.

It isn't because Mexico is full of rapists who want to rape American women. It isn't because Mexico is the largest assemblage of Al Qaeda/ISIS/Hezbollah/Hamas/Symbionese Liberation Army terrorists trying to get into America to kill us all. Those kind of folks often come in on visas like the 9/11 hijackers.

It's because we in America not only benefit from the labor of these people we also actively ENCOURAGE IT. I lived in SoCal. It's SUPER EASY to hire an illegal at the Home Depot. And the Lawncare Services hire illegals all the time. And most of them do it KNOWINGLY.

So it's just as much US as them. WE are inviting the person to 'break into our house' because we think we can take their shoes.

So then it's perfectly ok for me to break into your house for food and shelter if my kids and I are homeless. Great! Give me your address in case I'm ever homeless.

I think you are missing the key points:

1. Show some basic human compassion. I know that's hard in cases like this but remember these people are almost all just trying to get a better life. Anyone with half a brain and half a human heart should be able to understand this

2. WE are as much responsible for them being here as they are. WE invite them with our $$$$. We use their labor.

3. Study after study finds time and again that these undocumented aliens are LESS LIKELY to commit crimes while here than the average native born American.


NO ONE is proposing completely open borders. NO one. Not a single person. But the answer does NOT lie in demonizing and making up lies about immigrants eating pets and raping all over the place. Yes there are bad people among them. Just as there are bad people among us.

The answer is going to be costly and it will require the practice of human compassion. I know those are two things the MAGA movement is not keen on.