The Dam has Broken: Voinovich Joins Lugar

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Cypress

Well-known member
Voinovich Joins Lugar - Another GOP senator urges pullout


Now Voinovich follows Lugar’s lead. How many other GOP senators will now not want to be left behind?

Lugar and Voinovich said they were still not ready to insist on a timetable for withdrawal. But they both made it clear their patience was gone.
Once Iraq's neighbors "know we are genuinely leaving, I think all of a sudden the fear of God will descend upon them and say, 'We've got to get involved in this thing,'" Voinovich told reporters.

"It can't be something that is precipitous, but I do believe that it should be enough so that people know we are indeed disengaging," he added.
The loss of GOP support for the president's strategy is significant. Democrats may still not be able to push through legislation demanding an end date to the war, but softer alternative proposals are in the works that could still challenge Bush.

Spokesman John Ullyot said Warner is drafting a legislative proposal on the war, but declined to discuss the details. The measure would likely be offered as an amendment to the 2008 defense authorization bill on the floor next month.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq;_ylt=Aio_wcxzR8cDNVbtZbTPOVTMWM0F
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doniston said:
something new??? I missed that.
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It's in the last paragraph of his post, it is the first I've heard of it:

"Spokesman John Ullyot said Warner is drafting a legislative proposal on the war, but declined to discuss the details. The measure would likely be offered as an amendment to the 2008 defense authorization bill on the floor next month."
 
I think you've got to give the republicans a face-saving measure. They've proven time and time again, that they're willing to send kids into a meat grinder, just so they won't have to admit a mistake to the "liberal" media.

So, let's just not use the word "withdrawl" or "redeployment'. Lets just say were shifting the mission from "security" to "counter terrorism". Hand over security to the iraqis, and move american forces out of the cities, into kuwait, kurdistan, or other defensible positions - from which they could launch counter-terrorist missions against foreign jihaddists in the region.
 
Argh. This is part of a plan. The Republicans know the Democrats are running on an anti-war platform - they're going to try to resolve this war thing before the election in 2008 to pull the rug out from under their feet. This is not a measure of rationality. This is politics.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Argh. This is part of a plan. The Republicans know the Democrats are running on an anti-war platform - they're going to try to resolve this war thing before the election in 2008 to pull the rug out from under their feet. This is not a measure of rationality. This is politics.
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True, and if they pull of winning the election because of that, they will immediately escalate troop levels again.

But, the war has to end, so what do we do? Try and drag it out until Nov of 08 so that they Dems can win? Is that moral? I don't think that it is. And even if you do that, the dems can still lose, and then the R's escalate anyway.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Argh. This is part of a plan. The Republicans know the Democrats are running on an anti-war platform - they're going to try to resolve this war thing before the election in 2008 to pull the rug out from under their feet. This is not a measure of rationality. This is politics.
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I've already concluded that to republicans, this war is, and always was about politics.

I mean, c'mon: The TopGun carrier landing on Mission Accomplished Day?


Screw it. We need to save lives. The GOP will never admit a mistake - they'd rather send kids to their deaths, than admit a mistake.

Let's put the heat on them, while giving them some modest face-saving measure. Believe me, voters WON"T forget who started this fucking war.
 
You can't save lives if you lose the election. If they win, even if they do draw down troops, they'll just escalate them again. You can't ignore the politics of this.
 
Darla said:
True, and if they pull of winning the election because of that, they will immediately escalate troop levels again.

But, the war has to end, so what do we do? Try and drag it out until Nov of 08 so that they Dems can win? Is that moral? I don't think that it is. And even if you do that, the dems can still lose, and then the R's escalate anyway.
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That's stupid. Voinivich isn't a robot that walks around with "REPUBLICAN" stapled on his head, like all the Democrats are robots with "DEMOCRAT" stapled on their head. He makes his own decisions. If there were any big Republican consipiracy, I assure you, Voinivich wouldn't have been let in on it.
 
Cypress said:
I've already concluded that to republicans, this war is, and always was about politics.

I mean, c'mon: The TopGun carrier landing on Mission Accomplished Day?


Screw it. We need to save lives. The GOP will never admit a mistake - they'd rather send kids to their deaths, than admit a mistake.

Let's put the heat on them, while giving them some modest face-saving measure. Believe me, voters WON"T forget who started this fucking war.
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Everyone currently in the senate who voted on it, besides that one guy? Everyone in the house of representatives who voted for it, besides Ron Paul and a few other people?
 
LadyT said:
True. Which is why I won't be supporting her in the primaries.
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Hillary tries to be everyone's candidate.

Obama may withdraw immediately. John Edwards, also. But I've really had a lot of examples of America voting out presidents in order to end wars before. Ever heard of Nixon?

None of the Republicans would withdraw except for Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel, so I guess you guys have a point. I don't know how Fred Thompson would do, though. He hasn't really spoken much.
 
Well, the Iraq war is a deal breaker for me with any candidate. If the dems don't "man-up" and present a candidate that will get out immediately, I may seriously be going third party this election.
 
Yes that would be about right, Republicans winning the election because the end a war that they started and pushed for , based either on mistakes and or lies ?
No one should vote for them after that.
But as I have said , if they have a snazzy enough marketing campaign and repeat the lies often enough they will become as truth....
 
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