The Great Dying - the Permian extinction event

C

Cypress

Well-known member
Still one of the great mysteries in the earth sciences, meriting much study and consideration. .

I lean towards an extinction event linked to volcanism and/or runaway greenhouse climate event.

jpp dot com bible thumpers undoubtedly would invoke a biblical great flood spawned by a vengeful god.

Permian extinction event - 250 million years ago something unknown wiped out most life on our planet.

Some perpetrator -- or perpetrators -- committed murder on a scale unequaled in the history of the world. They left few clues to their identity, and they buried all the evidence under layers and layers of earth.

The case has gone unsolved for years -- 250 million years, that is.

The end-Permian mass extinction, which took place 251.9 million years ago, killed off more than 96 percent of the planet's marine species and 70 percent of its terrestrial life—a global annihilation that marked the end of the Permian Period.

Somehow, most of the life on Earth perished in a brief moment of geologic time roughly 250 million years ago. Scientists call it the Permian-Triassic extinction or "the Great Dying" -- not to be confused with the better-known Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction that signaled the end of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Whatever happened during the Permian-Triassic period was much worse: No class of life was spared from the devastation. Trees, plants, lizards, proto-mammals, insects, fish, mollusks, and microbes -- all were nearly wiped out. Roughly 9 in 10 marine species and 7 in 10 land species vanished. Life on our planet almost came to an end.

Scientists have suggested many possible causes for the Great Dying: severe volcanism, a nearby supernova, environmental changes wrought by the formation of a super-continent, the devastating impact of a large asteroid -- or some combination of these. Proving which theory is correct has been difficult. The trail has grown cold over the last quarter billion years; much of the evidence has been destroyed.

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/28jan_extinction

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-09-end-permian-extinction-earth-species-instantaneous.html#jCp
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If it was a runaway greenhouse gas event, that should give everyone pause. We should act now and aggressively if we want to avoid the same thing happening again.

Thank you for the link to the article. Great read!
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Many scientists believe that we are already in the middle of the sixth great extinction event.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...nction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn
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A good point to bring up.

I think most humans would be shocked to really learn and understand the scope of ecological damage we have done in the last few hundred years.

On that tangent, I think one of my favorite laws passed by congress in the modern era is the Endangered Species Act. Especially given how bipartisan it was at the time.

To me, that law speaks to our better side as human beings. It was not based on economic considerations, business considerations, labor considerations, commerce, education, or law. It was a statement by us as human beings, about our connection to the planet we live on, and the animals we share it with. There is a purity to that law that one rarely finds in any legislation coming out of congress.
 
Cypress said:
A good point to bring up.

I think most humans would be shocked to really learn and understand the scope of ecological damage we have done in the last few hundred years.

On that tangent, I think one of my favorite laws passed by congress in the modern era is the Endangered Species Act. Especially given how bipartisan it was at the time.

To me, that law speaks to our better side as human beings. It was not based on economic considerations, business considerations, labor considerations, commerce, education, or law. It was a statement by us as human beings, about our connection to the planet we live on, and the animals we share it with. There is a purity to that law that one rarely finds in any legislation coming out of congress.
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Well said. Makes me love and appreciate this beautiful gem of a planet that we have, knowing that it is unlikely in what's left of my lifespan (even if that FOX03 gene thing is right and I made it to 100+) that we will ever see that kind of protection given to other species or to our shared environment, again. In fact, Toadstool and the greedy corporate bastards who really run this country are hard at work trying to dismantle the EPA, environmental regulations, and anything else that stands in the way of profits.

Remember this commercial? (Yeah, I know, the actor wasn't a real NA.)

vVxzaeI.jpg
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Well said. Makes me love and appreciate this beautiful gem of a planet that we have, knowing that it is unlikely in what's left of my lifespan (even if that FOX03 gene thing is right and I made it to 100+) that we will ever see that kind of protection given to other species or to our shared environment, again. In fact, Toadstool and the greedy corporate bastards who really run this country are hard at work trying to dismantle the EPA, environmental regulations, and anything else that stands in the way of profits.

Remember this commercial? (Yeah, I know, the actor wasn't a real NA.)

vVxzaeI.jpg
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Nice work, and yes I remember that commercial vividly!

I have heard some say that that one simple commercial was instrumental in kicking the environmental movement into high gear.
 
Aimée said:
If it was a runaway greenhouse gas event, that should give everyone pause. We should act now and aggressively if we want to avoid the same thing happening again.

Thank you for the link to the article. Great read!
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Kind of you to say.
Carry on!
 
Cypress said:
A good point to bring up.

I think most humans would be shocked to really learn and understand the scope of ecological damage we have done in the last few hundred years.

On that tangent, I think one of my favorite laws passed by congress in the modern era is the Endangered Species Act. Especially given how bipartisan it was at the time.

To me, that law speaks to our better side as human beings. It was not based on economic considerations, business considerations, labor considerations, commerce, education, or law. It was a statement by us as human beings, about our connection to the planet we live on, and the animals we share it with. There is a purity to that law that one rarely finds in any legislation coming out of congress.
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All one has to do is look at the posts from the right wing in here, or in any forum for that matter, and you will see they place the value of timber, gold, oil, and even coal, over the well being of the planet, or even that of their neighbor. I honestly do not think that they will change until some great catastrophe occurs, and then it may be too late. And it is not only the environment, it is also the economy.

Are we entering the "Last Days"?
 
Old Trapper said:
All one has to do is look at the posts from the right wing in here, or in any forum for that matter, and you will see they place the value of timber, gold, oil, and even coal, over the well being of the planet, or even that of their neighbor. I honestly do not think that they will change until some great catastrophe occurs, and then it may be too late. And it is not only the environment, it is also the economy.

Are we entering the "Last Days"?
Click to expand...

The weird thing is that most Republicans of the 1970s were pro-environment. I do not know what happened to them, but their anti-environment, global warming denial, anti-science posture coincided with the rise of Bedtime for Bonzo, and ever since then Republicans have placed a premium on ignorance, aka Donald Trump, Sarah Palin, George Dumbya, Dan Quayle, et al.

On another tangent, I just learned yesterday that atmospheric oxygen levels have fluctuated pretty drastically in the last 500 million years. In the Permian, atmospheric O2 was way up at 35 percent, almost twice what it is today. And that is why insects grew so huge in the Permian - e.g., dragonflies with 30 inch wingspans. Massive regional and global fires, were common in the Permian, and even wet vegetation in a 35 percent O2 atmosphere can catch fire. One lightening strike could cause a massive, regional conflagration. According to isotopic data, after the Permian extinction event, atmospheric O2 drastically dropped to about 15 percent, and atmospheric CO2 shot way up. Whatever happened at the end of the Permian era was sudden, drastic, and catastrophic. It is the kind of mystery science geeks cannot get enough of!
 
Cypress said:
Still one of the great mysteries in the earth sciences, meriting much study and consideration. .

I lean towards an extinction event linked to volcanism and/or runaway greenhouse climate event.

jpp dot com bible thumpers undoubtedly would invoke a biblical great flood spawned by a vengeful god.
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There's another hypothesis that you haven't explored. That a cooling period caused such a vast accumulation of ice at one of the poles that the earth literally flipped on its axis.

It's hard to explain why there was such a mass extinction event both terrestrially and aquatically with localized events such as vulcanism or an asteroid hit. The earth flipping on it's axis does provide a plausible explanation why both occurred at the same time.
 
Aimée said:
If it was a runaway greenhouse gas event, that should give everyone pause. We should act now and aggressively if we want to avoid the same thing happening again.

Thank you for the link to the article. Great read!
Click to expand...
That wouldn't explain a massive extinction event in the Oceans.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
There's another hypothesis that you haven't explored. That a cooling period caused such a vast accumulation of ice at one of the poles that the earth literally flipped on its axis.

It's hard to explain why there was such a mass extinction event both terrestrially and aquatically with localized events such as vulcanism or an asteroid hit. The earth flipping on it's axis does provide a plausible explanation why both occurred at the same time.
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Thanks for the contribution and the insight.

From what the paleontologists say, it is indeed hard to explain a massive, global scale extinction even that nearly wiped out all life, and was geologically instantaneous. Evidently, there is no evidence, none, nada, zilch, that there was any gradual decline in biodiversity prior to the extinction event.

Lots of hypotheses, and apparently little in the way of definitive evidence. If there was an asteroid impact, I would think there would be residual chemical and isotopic data from the Permo-Triassic boundary in the same way we see at the K-T boundary. I do not think they have found any evidence of enrichment of iridium.
250 million years is a long time though. It is a living earth, constantly recycling and morphing, so perhaps a lot of geologic evidence has simply gone missing.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That wouldn't explain a massive extinction event in the Oceans.
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You would have to cut off photosynthesis at a global scale and kill off the phytoplankton - block sunlight presumably for decades or centuries.

That points to asteroid impact, catastrophic vulcanism, or both.
 
Cypress said:
A good point to bring up.

I think most humans would be shocked to really learn and understand the scope of ecological damage we have done in the last few hundred years.

On that tangent, I think one of my favorite laws passed by congress in the modern era is the Endangered Species Act. Especially given how bipartisan it was at the time.

To me, that law speaks to our better side as human beings. It was not based on economic considerations, business considerations, labor considerations, commerce, education, or law. It was a statement by us as human beings, about our connection to the planet we live on, and the animals we share it with. There is a purity to that law that one rarely finds in any legislation coming out of congress.
Click to expand...

Actually all the major environmenetal laws (aka "ACTS") had tremendous bipartisan support. Some of the most broad ranging and forward thinking laws were signed into law by conservative Presidents.

Nixon signed the National Environmental Policy Act into law, as well as, the Environmental Protection Agency, NOAA, The Clean Air Act (CAA), The Clean Water Act (CWA) and the Endangered Species Act.

Ford signed the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) into law, as well as the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) and the Toxic Substance Control Act (TSCA).

Jimmy Carter signed into law revisions strengthening both the CWA and CAA (including title 5) and he signed the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act (CERCLA) into law.

Reagan's record is mixed. He did sign the Environmental Protection and Community Right To Know Act (EPCRA) and the Superfund Reauthorization Act (SARA) into law but he also reduced EPA's enforcement ability drastically.

George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act Amendments into law and hired the first professional environmentalist to head the EPA and restored much of the funding that undercut EPA's enforcement capabilities.

By this time the vast majority of the environmental laws and regulatory framework in this nation, that we take for granted now, were in place and functioning. The main argument currently isn't over their validity because of extraordinary results they achieved but over the scope of the regulations and enforcement.

Anyway you put it we've come a long, long way since 1970.
 
Cypress said:
Still one of the great mysteries in the earth sciences, meriting much study and consideration. .

I lean towards an extinction event linked to volcanism and/or runaway greenhouse climate event.

jpp dot com bible thumpers undoubtedly would invoke a biblical great flood spawned by a vengeful god.
Click to expand...

250 million years ago is too far back to have been the Great Flood.
 
Howard the Duck said:
250 million years ago is too far back to have been the Great Flood.
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That age range is only for the scientifically literate.

A lot of bible thumpers I have run across do not actually believe radiometric dating techniques, dismiss any notion of an ancient Earth, and they go through all manner of mental contortions to explain the vagaries of the fossil record.
 
Cypress said:
Still one of the great mysteries in the earth sciences, meriting much study and consideration. .

I lean towards an extinction event linked to volcanism and/or runaway greenhouse climate event.

jpp dot com bible thumpers undoubtedly would invoke a biblical great flood spawned by a vengeful god.
Click to expand...

Siberian Traps likely culprit for end-Permian extinction

Around 252 million years ago, life on Earth collapsed in spectacular and unprecedented fashion, as more than 96 percent of marine species and 70 percent of land species disappeared in a geological instant. The so-called end-Permian mass extinction *— or more commonly, the “Great Dying” — remains the most severe extinction event in Earth’s history.

Scientists suspect that massive volcanic activity, in a large igneous province called the Siberian Traps, may have had a role in the global die-off, raising air and sea temperatures and releasing toxic amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere over a very short period of time. However, it’s unclear whether magmatism was the main culprit, or simply an accessory to the mass extinction.

http://news.mit.edu/2015/siberian-traps-end-permian-extinction-0916

N6ys4tt.jpg

 
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