The United States Does Not Torture!

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Bush said it, and I believe it, so I wish the Ny Times would just shut up. Printing this stuff is bad for our troops!

Bush Lawyers Discussed Fate of C.I.A.Tapes
By MARK MAZZETTI and SCOTT SHANE
WASHINGTON — At least four top White House lawyers took part in discussions with the Central Intelligence Agency between 2003 and 2005 about whether to destroy videotapes showing the secret interrogations of two operatives from Al Qaeda, according to current and former administration and intelligence officials.

The accounts indicate that the involvement of White House officials in the discussions before the destruction of the tapes in November 2005 was more extensive than Bush administration officials have acknowledged.

Those who took part, the officials said, included Alberto R. Gonzales, who served as White House counsel until early 2005; David S. Addington, who was the counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney and is now his chief of staff; John B. Bellinger III, who until January 2005 was the senior lawyer at the National Security Council; and Harriet E. Miers, who succeeded Mr. Gonzales as White House counsel.

It was previously reported that some administration officials had advised against destroying the tapes, but the emerging picture of White House involvement is more complex. In interviews, several administration and intelligence officials provided conflicting accounts as to whether anyone at the White House expressed support for the idea that the tapes should be destroyed.

One former senior intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said there had been “vigorous sentiment” among some top White House officials to destroy the tapes. The former official did not specify which White House officials took this position, but he said that some believed in 2005 that any disclosure of the tapes could have been particularly damaging after revelations a year earlier of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Some other officials assert that no one at the White House advocated destroying the tapes. Those officials acknowledged, however, that no White House lawyer gave a direct order to preserve the tapes or advised that destroying them would be illegal.

The destruction of the tapes is being investigated by the Justice Department, and the officials would not agree to be quoted by name while that inquiry is under way.

Spokesmen for the White House, the vice president’s office and the C.I.A. declined to comment for this article, also citing the inquiry.

The new information came to light as a federal judge on Tuesday ordered a hearing into whether the tapes’ destruction violated an order to preserve evidence in a lawsuit brought on behalf of 16 prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. The tapes documented harsh interrogation methods used in 2002 on Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, two Qaeda suspects in C.I.A. custody.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/washington/19intel.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print
 
Waterboarding is just "extreme" surfing while indoors.


Nah. Senator Kit Bond tells me that it's just like swimming:

GWEN IFILL: I just would like to -- but do you think that waterboarding, as I described it, constitutes torture?

SEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It's like swimming, freestyle, backstroke. The waterboarding could be used almost to define some of the techniques that our trainees are put through, but that's beside the point. It's not being used
 
In my opinion, what is most telling about the waterboarding/torture revelation is the total lack of outrage and anger from the American people .. especially given the knowledge of Abu Ghrib, Guantanamo, and torture flights that ships our victims to torture countries to get tortured for us.

Does the US torture?

Is that supposed to be a serious question?

We fucking teach torture in our own terrorist training camp and have been doing so for years. Hell yes we torture and Americans don't really give a fuck if we do.

Whoever destroyed the tapes did Americans a favor because we don't really care that our government tortures or even that we'd be involved in the rape of children as a "technique."

Here in the Matrix, we have mastered the art of cognitive dissonance .. or more correctly, it has been mastered for us.
 
In my opinion, what is most telling about the waterboarding/torture revelation is the total lack of outrage and anger from the American people .. especially given the knowledge of Abu Ghrib, Guantanamo, and torture flights that ships our victims to torture countries to get tortured for us.

Does the US torture?

Is that supposed to be a serious question?

We fucking teach torture in our own terrorist training camp and have been doing so for years. Hell yes we torture and Americans don't really give a fuck if we do.

Whoever destroyed the tapes did Americans a favor because we don't really care that our government tortures or even that we'd be involved in the rape of children as a "technique."

Here in the Matrix, we have mastered the art of cognitive dissonance .. or more correctly, it has been mastered for us.

QFT
 
In my opinion, what is most telling about the waterboarding/torture revelation is the total lack of outrage and anger from the American people .. especially given the knowledge of Abu Ghrib, Guantanamo, and torture flights that ships our victims to torture countries to get tortured for us.

Does the US torture?

Is that supposed to be a serious question?

We fucking teach torture in our own terrorist training camp and have been doing so for years. Hell yes we torture and Americans don't really give a fuck if we do.

Whoever destroyed the tapes did Americans a favor because we don't really care that our government tortures or even that we'd be involved in the rape of children as a "technique."

Here in the Matrix, we have mastered the art of cognitive dissonance .. or more correctly, it has been mastered for us.


the only difference between now, and 20 years ago, is that the neocon faction of the republican party has made it okay to cheer torture publically, or at a minimum remain silent about it. I don't think americans have changed much, fundamentally. I think a plurality of people have never given a crap about toruturing the "evil ones"; they'd rather blather on about partial birth abortions and embryos. And, I don't think its an american phenomena either. I'm quite sure the French secret police beat up and rough up detainees, and french society has little interest in upholding their cherished "Declaration of the Rights of Man" principles from their revolution.

Its human nature. Most people don't care about torture, if they have an impression that its being done to "evil ones".
 
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