This is what happens when you fall for propoganda

Onceler

New member
Look where we are at today. The country is fiercely divided. According to recent intelligence, Al Qaida is JUST AS STRONG today as they were on 9/11, and just as poised to attack the U.S. Iraq is in chaos; 10's of thousands have died, and millions have been displaced. We're in it for a half trillion so far, and probably at least twice that when all is said & done. And no end is in sight.

The worst part? As a nation, we are not able to have an honest discussion about how to address terrorism & security threats to America, and we haven't been able to have such a discussion in years. There is a significant portion of the country who buy into "we have to fight them there so we won't have to fight 'em here," and anyone else is basically a traitor. It's crazy how many times I've asked a Bushie "why did we attack Iraq?", only to have a response like "Don't you remember 9/11? We had to do something!," as though the only options for national security are attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, or sit on our hands & appease, appease, appease.

Actually, that's not the worst part. The worst part is that the fools who got us into this mess are as defiant as ever, and show no signs of ever learning a lesson from this mess, which is the only silver lining that could be hoped for at this point.

It's really our duty as Americans to always question authority...the guys who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor would shudder at the blind allegiance displayed by so many at the outset of the Iraq War & in the years since. That's not what we are about. Dissent IS patriotic....
 
Look where we are at today. The country is fiercely divided. According to recent intelligence, Al Qaida is JUST AS STRONG today as they were on 9/11, and just as poised to attack the U.S. Iraq is in chaos; 10's of thousands have died, and millions have been displaced. We're in it for a half trillion so far, and probably at least twice that when all is said & done. And no end is in sight.

The worst part? As a nation, we are not able to have an honest discussion about how to address terrorism & security threats to America, and we haven't been able to have such a discussion in years. There is a significant portion of the country who buy into "we have to fight them there so we won't have to fight 'em here," and anyone else is basically a traitor. It's crazy how many times I've asked a Bushie "why did we attack Iraq?", only to have a response like "Don't you remember 9/11? We had to do something!," as though the only options for national security are attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, or sit on our hands & appease, appease, appease.

Actually, that's not the worst part. The worst part is that the fools who got us into this mess are as defiant as ever, and show no signs of ever learning a lesson from this mess, which is the only silver lining that could be hoped for at this point.

It's really our duty as Americans to always question authority...the guys who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor would shudder at the blind allegiance displayed by so many at the outset of the Iraq War & in the years since. That's not what we are about. Dissent IS patriotic....

Great post!
 
Hillary/Obama/Edwards will get us out
Hopefully they can bitchslap the military industrial complex around and cut down on the right wing policing of our lives too.
 
"Hillary/Obama/Edwards will get us out"

I don't trust Hillary on the war, but I agree that any of these 3 are our best hope. A President Giuliani isn't about to change the course. We could easily be there for another 10 years if he wins...
 
Can anybody remember the conversations I had with Saoirse where I said, "If you believe the war is wrong it isn't just patriotic to protest, it is your duty."
 
Look where we are at today. The country is fiercely divided. According to recent intelligence, Al Qaida is JUST AS STRONG today as they were on 9/11, and just as poised to attack the U.S. Iraq is in chaos; 10's of thousands have died, and millions have been displaced. We're in it for a half trillion so far, and probably at least twice that when all is said & done. And no end is in sight.

The worst part? As a nation, we are not able to have an honest discussion about how to address terrorism & security threats to America, and we haven't been able to have such a discussion in years. There is a significant portion of the country who buy into "we have to fight them there so we won't have to fight 'em here," and anyone else is basically a traitor. It's crazy how many times I've asked a Bushie "why did we attack Iraq?", only to have a response like "Don't you remember 9/11? We had to do something!," as though the only options for national security are attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, or sit on our hands & appease, appease, appease.

Actually, that's not the worst part. The worst part is that the fools who got us into this mess are as defiant as ever, and show no signs of ever learning a lesson from this mess, which is the only silver lining that could be hoped for at this point.

It's really our duty as Americans to always question authority...the guys who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor would shudder at the blind allegiance displayed by so many at the outset of the Iraq War & in the years since. That's not what we are about. Dissent IS patriotic....


What do you mean by we haven't had an "honest discussion" about terrorism? Since 9/11 and attacking Iraq we've had several elections where candidates and the two political parties have had a chance to express their positions and ideas regarding terrorism and how we should best deal with it.
 
What do you mean by we haven't had an "honest discussion" about terrorism? Since 9/11 and attacking Iraq we've had several elections where candidates and the two political parties have had a chance to express their positions and ideas regarding terrorism and how we should best deal with it.


We haven't had an honest discussion on a national level. The discussion is entirely framed about Iraq & the viability of that strategy. So, anyone who opposes that is portrayed as appeasing in some way, or even as supporting the terrorists. The discussion is rendered toxic as a result. Sure, people can bring up other ideas, but it's how those ideas are filtered that causes problems.

I can't believe someone could think we have really had an honest discussion about terrorism in this country. Just look at what happened to Ron Paul after he brought up the idea that our actions in the Middle East might be a cause in one of the debates...
 
Look where we are at today. The country is fiercely divided. According to recent intelligence, Al Qaida is JUST AS STRONG today as they were on 9/11, and just as poised to attack the U.S. Iraq is in chaos; 10's of thousands have died, and millions have been displaced. We're in it for a half trillion so far, and probably at least twice that when all is said & done. And no end is in sight.

The worst part? As a nation, we are not able to have an honest discussion about how to address terrorism & security threats to America, and we haven't been able to have such a discussion in years. There is a significant portion of the country who buy into "we have to fight them there so we won't have to fight 'em here," and anyone else is basically a traitor. It's crazy how many times I've asked a Bushie "why did we attack Iraq?", only to have a response like "Don't you remember 9/11? We had to do something!," as though the only options for national security are attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, or sit on our hands & appease, appease, appease.

Actually, that's not the worst part. The worst part is that the fools who got us into this mess are as defiant as ever, and show no signs of ever learning a lesson from this mess, which is the only silver lining that could be hoped for at this point.

It's really our duty as Americans to always question authority...the guys who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor would shudder at the blind allegiance displayed by so many at the outset of the Iraq War & in the years since. That's not what we are about. Dissent IS patriotic....


things have really changed.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s, I remember liberals and conservatives having heated disagreements about how to confront and/or contain the soviet union. But, I don't remember ever being called anti-american, or a traitor. This is something the NeoCons have foisted upon us, with the help of rightwing talk radio and the conservative media.
 
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