Thought Experiment - What kind of gov would you build for a small community post-apoc

B

BRUTALITOPS

on indefiniate mod break
Contributor
I say post apocalypse but it doesn't have to be. Basically, think agricultural city state, where there is limited technology. Lets say your community has about 5000 people. So more of a villagestate actually. Assume there are other small communities you need to interact with as well, so you aren't totally by yourself.

What kind of government would you build, if any?

I think about this stuff a lot (when I am high) and it's kind of a game to me. What institutions would I build, how would it all work together?

The first element of Grindtopia is I would use sortition. I.e. choosing leaders via lottery. I've been reading about sortition recently and I find the idea quite appealing. We randomly elect from an established pool of qualified citizens (more on that in a bit). There are numerous advantages over elections

elections promote factionalism

elections promote demagogues

because it promotes a party system and because there are reelections people are less likely to cross the aisle even if they agree with the other side as they have to be on the same team

elections pre-select for the heavily wealthy.. most less well off people can't take a year off from their job to campaign or don't have the funds, so really what we call democratic elections are really playing house with an oligarchy

sortition will allow for a much more representative sample of the population

the wisdom of crowds actually is a real thing even when we want to call everyone idiots.

If you think I'm crazy, keep in mind we basically use sortition for jury duty and empower them to convict people and take away their freedom. So it's not like this is without precedent. The ancient athenians practiced a version of this as well.

The people will be elected from a college of citizens, who get themselves pre qualified. I would say two letters of reccomendation, and 20 citizen co-sponsers. This just makes sure we have a individual that passes the smell test and isn't just the town retard.

I will go into further details later. I am interested to hear your own thoughts.
 
DeepGrind said:
I say post apocalypse but it doesn't have to be. Basically, think agricultural city state, where there is limited technology. Lets say your community has about 5000 people. So more of a villagestate actually. Assume there are other small communities you need to interact with as well, so you aren't totally by yourself.

What kind of government would you build, if any?

I think about this stuff a lot (when I am high) and it's kind of a game to me. What institutions would I build, how would it all work together?

The first element of Grindtopia is I would use sortition. I.e. choosing leaders via lottery. I've been reading about sortition recently and I find the idea quite appealing. We randomly elect from an established pool of qualified citizens (more on that in a bit). There are numerous advantages over elections

elections promote factionalism

elections promote demagogues

because it promotes a party system and because there are reelections people are less likely to cross the aisle even if they agree with the other side as they have to be on the same team

elections pre-select for the heavily wealthy.. most less well off people can't take a year off from their job to campaign or don't have the funds, so really what we call democratic elections are really playing house with an oligarchy

sortition will allow for a much more representative sample of the population

the wisdom of crowds actually is a real thing even when we want to call everyone idiots.

If you think I'm crazy, keep in mind we basically use sortition for jury duty and empower them to convict people and take away their freedom. So it's not like this is without precedent. The ancient athenians practiced a version of this as well.

The people will be elected from a college of citizens, who get themselves pre qualified. I would say two letters of reccomendation, and 20 citizen co-sponsers. This just makes sure we have a individual that passes the smell test and isn't just the town retard.

I will go into further details later. I am interested to hear your own thoughts.
Click to expand...

With only a small population, I would go for a Democracy; but as the community grew, it would have to evolve into a Representative Government, but with built in guidelines to curtail "influence" and with severe penalties for anyone who is found to be "self serving".
It would still be essential that everyone contribute, as to their abilities; because "free stuff" doesn't benefit the group.
 
10 new senators added each year to a house of 30. Senators serve a 3 year term.

The first year senators have limited powers, they can vote but cannot propose legislation. This is the time for them to learn the ropes, they can participate and debate, and may be assigned to junior community leadership roles and serve as ambassadors to other communities.

Second year senators have the power to propose legislation. They are also eligible to run for a senior senatorial leadership position (more on that later). They will be given more responsibility and possibly committee chairs.

Third year senators are the same as the second in terms of powers but have more prestige and experience, and have first pick at committee assignments, and are first choice for any important tasks.

Are you bored yet?

At the beginning of a new year, the upper tiers elect their leadership.

Leadership is:
President/leader
State Secretary
Judicial Liason
Treasuerer

This leadership makes up the "main council" which is headed by the president. Each leader chairs their own committee which is made up of various members of the senate.

At the very top of it all is the chairman. This person is a former senator appointed by their predecessor and toward the end of their final year. They are sort of a combination of a traditional chairman and a roman censor, so they have some level of power, but exist to run the senate itself and keep order. They have almost total dominion and legal authority over the senate chamber. They runs proceedings, Keep order, can order the agenda if asked but gives deference to the president. Can call a session. Acts as head liason when needed, so they will keep up to date on who needs what and schedule x y z. Helps sort senate makeup and is responsible for general organization. Overseas senate elections. Judges during impeachment. Can pardon convicts. Ultimate arbiter on senate rules. Needless to say this is a person that must command a sincere amount of respect and have impeccable judgment and character.

Want more? Maybe a couple more puffs.
 
DeepGrind said:
10 new senators added each year to a house of 30. Senators serve a 3 year term.

The first year senators have limited powers, they can vote but cannot propose legislation. This is the time for them to learn the ropes, they can participate and debate, and may be assigned to junior community leadership roles and serve as ambassadors to other communities.

Second year senators have the power to propose legislation. They are also eligible to run for a senior senatorial leadership position (more on that later). They will be given more responsibility and possibly committee chairs.

Third year senators are the same as the second in terms of powers but have more prestige and experience, and have first pick at committee assignments, and are first choice for any important tasks.

Are you bored yet?

At the beginning of a new year, the upper tiers elect their leadership.

Leadership is:
President/leader
State Secretary
Judicial Liason
Treasuerer

This leadership makes up the "main council" which is headed by the president. Each leader chairs their own committee which is made up of various members of the senate.

At the very top of it all is the chairman. This person is a former senator appointed by their predecessor and toward the end of their final year. They are sort of a combination of a traditional chairman and a roman censor, so they have some level of power, but exist to run the senate itself and keep order. They have almost total dominion and legal authority over the senate chamber. They runs proceedings, Keep order, can order the agenda if asked but gives deference to the president. Can call a session. Acts as head liason when needed, so they will keep up to date on who needs what and schedule x y z. Helps sort senate makeup and is responsible for general organization. Overseas senate elections. Judges during impeachment. Can pardon convicts. Ultimate arbiter on senate rules. Needless to say this is a person that must command a sincere amount of respect and have impeccable judgment and character.

Want more? Maybe a couple more puffs.
Click to expand...

You forgot term limits.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
You forgot term limits.
Click to expand...

I did not forget. I just have taken a typing break.

I don't think I would have term limits, if they get random selected again the go back in. It'll be useful to have qualified experienced legislators at all levels to help. Perhaps a time limit though in between like 5 years.
 
DeepGrind said:
I did not forget. I just have taken a typing break.

I don't think I would have term limits, if they get random selected again the go back in. It'll be useful to have qualified experienced legislators at all levels to help. Perhaps a time limit though in between like 5 years.
Click to expand...

I could agree with 5 years; but they need to understand that it was always meant to be a temporary position and not a life time job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top