Top Ten Myths about Iraq

Cypress

Well-known member
Top Ten Myths about Iraq 2006

Dr. Juan Cole

1. Myth number one is that the United States "can still win" in Iraq. Of course, the truth of this statement, frequently still made by William Kristol and other Neoconservatives, depends on what "winning" means. But if it means the establishment of a stable, pro-American, anti-Iranian government with an effective and even-handed army and police force in the near or even medium term, then the assertion is frankly ridiculous. The Iraqi "government" is barely functioning. The parliament was not able to meet in December because it could not attain a quorum. Many key Iraqi politicians live most of the time in London, and much of parliament is frequently abroad. Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki does not control large swathes of the country, and could give few orders that had any chance of being obeyed. The US military cannot shore up this government, even with an extra division, because the government is divided against itself. Most of the major parties trying to craft legislation are also linked to militias on the streets who are killing one another. It is over with. Iraq is in for years of heavy political violence of a sort that no foreign military force can hope to stop.

…….Snip…………

2. "US military sweeps of neighborhoods can drive the guerrillas out." The US put an extra 15,000 men into Baghdad this past summer, aiming to crush the guerrillas and stop the violence in the capital, and the number of attacks actually increased. This result comes about in part because the guerrillas are not outsiders who come in and then are forced out. The Sunni Arabs of Ghazaliya and Dora districts in the capital are the "insurgents." The US military cannot defeat the Sunni Arab guerrilla movement or "insurgency" with less than 500,000 troops, based on what we have seen in the Balkans and other such conflict situations. The US destroyed Falluja, and even it and other cities of al-Anbar province are not now safe….

……snip…….

3. The United States is best off throwing all its support behind the Iraqi Shiites. ….snip….

The Sunni Arabs have demonstrated conclusively that they can act effectively as spoilers in the new Iraq. If they aren't happy, no one is going to be. The US must negotiate with the guerrilla leaders and find a win/win framework for them to come in from the cold and work alongside the Kurds and the religious Shiites. About this, US Ambassador in Baghdad Zalmay Khalilzad has been absolutely right.

4. "Iraq is not in a civil war," as Jurassic conservative Fox commentator Bill O'Reilly insists. There is a well-established social science definition of civil war put forward by Professor J. David Singer and his colleagues: "Sustained military combat, primarily internal, resulting in at least 1,000 battle-deaths per year, pitting central government forces against an insurgent force capable of effective resistance, determined by the latter's ability to inflict upon the government forces at least 5 percent of the fatalities that the insurgents sustain." ….

snip

5. "The second Lancet study showing 600,000 excess deaths from political and criminal violence since the US invasion is somehow flawed." Les Roberts replies here to many of the objections that were raised. See also the transcript of the Kucinich-Paul Congressional hearings on the subject. Many critics refer to the numbers of dead reported in the press as counter-arguments to Roberts et al. But "passive reporting" such as news articles never captures more than a fraction of the casualties in any war. I see deaths reported in the Arabic press all the time that never show up in the English language wire services. And, a lot of towns in Iraq don't have local newspapers and many local deaths are not reported in the national newspapers.

6. "Most deaths in Iraq are from bombings." The Lancet study found that the majority of violent deaths are from being shot.

7. "Baghdad and environs are especially violent but the death rate is lower in the rest of the country." The Lancet survey found that levels of violence in the rest of the country are similar to that in Baghdad (remember that the authors included criminal activities such as gang and smuggler turf wars in their statistics). The Shiite south is spared much Sunni-Shiite communal fighting, but criminal gangs, tribal feuds, and militias fight one another over oil and antiquities smuggling, and a lot of people are getting shot down there, too.

8. "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror." From the beginning of history until 2003 there had never been a suicide bombing in Iraq. There was no al-Qaeda in Baath-ruled Iraq. When Baath intelligence heard that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi might have entered Iraq, they grew alarmed at such an "al-Qaeda" presence and put out an APB on him! Zarqawi's so-called "al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia" was never "central" in Iraq and was never responsible for more than a fraction of the violent attacks. This assertion is supported by the outcome of a US-Jordanian operation that killed Zarqawi this year. His death had no impact whatsoever on the level of violence. There are probably only about 1,000 foreign fighters even in Iraq, and most of them are first-time volunteers, not old-time terrorists.

…..Snip……….

9. "The Sunni Arab guerrillas in places like Ramadi will follow the US home to the American mainland and commit terrorism if we leave Iraq." This assertion is just a variation on the invalid domino theory. People in Ramadi only have one beef with the United States. Its troops are going through their wives' underwear in the course of house searches every day. They don't want the US troops in their town or their homes, dictating to them that they must live under a government of Shiite clerics and Kurdish warlords (as they think of them). …..Snip………. They are not going to start taking flight lessons and trying to get visas to the US. …snip…. The argument is a crock.

10. "Setting a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq is a bad idea." Bush and others in his administration have argued that setting such a timetable would give a significant military advantage to the guerrillas fighting US forces and opposed to the new government. That assertion makes sense only if there were a prospect that the US could militarily crush the Sunni Arabs. There is no such prospect. The guerrilla war is hotter now than at any time since the US invasion. It is more widely supported by more Sunni Arabs than ever before….snip…..

In my view, Shiite leaders such as Abdul Aziz al-Hakim are repeatedly declining to negotiate in good faith with the Sunni Arabs or to take their views seriously. Al-Hakim knows that if the Sunnis give him any trouble, he can sic the Marines on them. The US presence is making it harder for Iraqi to compromise with Iraqi, which is counterproductive.

Juancole.com




Think Progress points out that in 1999, Governor George W. Bush criticized then President Clinton for declining to set a withdrawal timetable for Kosovo, saying "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
 
Does the Red Horseman look good in jeans? I don't remember that quality listed in Revelations...

Well now only a few demented souls lust after Bush's butt in bluejeans anyway :) Revelations seems to leave out a lot of details anyway, hard to be specific when you are nuts and writing I suppose.
 
Well now only a few demented souls lust after Bush's butt in bluejeans anyway :) Revelations seems to leave out a lot of details anyway, hard to be specific when you are nuts and writing I suppose.
I dunno. Seven heads and ten horns with crowns.. That's pretty specific. One ugly bastard, but pretty specific.
 
Well the images are pretty specific, hallucinations can be that way I suppose. but the details of the sequence of events and such leaves a bit to be desired...
 
1. Myth number one is that the United States "can still win" in Iraq.

We have to "win" in Iraq, it's not a matter of "if we can". If we don't win, the radical Islamofascists win, and that is not a good thing for us in the War on Terror.

2. "US military sweeps of neighborhoods can drive the guerrillas out."

The US military hasn't made an independent "sweep" of any neighborhood since Fallujah, three years ago. Most of the operations in Iraq, are conducted by trained Iraqi security forces, the decisions are made by Iraqi generals and leadership, and the US only plays a supporting role.

3. The United States is best off throwing all its support behind the Iraqi Shiites.

The US has never "thrown all its support" behind ANY single group, including Shiites. They have helped Sunni's, Shiites, and Kurds form a Unity Government, and promote a non-partisan cooperation between these groups. This said, Iraq is only about 20% Sunni, the Kurds and Shiites make up about 80% of the country, and the Sunni's seem to be the only group causing the trouble. Maybe Neocons should take a lesson from the Sunni's here, maybe that is how we get through your thick-headed tenaciousness here? We can just start becoming violent and blowing up liberals, and in a week, you'll be ready to "negotiate" with Cons! That's essentially what you are saying we should do here.

4. "Iraq is not in a civil war," as Jurassic conservative Fox commentator Bill O'Reilly insists.

It's not a civil war, in the traditional sense of a "civil war". There are not two armies, a divisional boundary, separate governments, etc. It's not like, North and South Iraq are in battle over the country. It is no more a "civil war" than the Watts Riots were a "civil war", in my opinion.

5. "The second Lancet study showing 600,000 excess deaths from political and criminal violence since the US invasion is somehow flawed."

It is flawed, most of the numbers coming out of Iraq are flawed, as you go on to explain. There is simply no way to know for certain, how many people have died in the war, and then... there is no way to tell if they died as a result of the war, or a private vendetta, or because of anti-Americanism, or anti-Shiaism, or just out of plain meanness. Even at 600,000... this is far less than the number of innocent Iraqi's Saddam is believed to have murdered during his reign, and it's also far less than the casualties of the Japanese, following two nuclear bombs.


6. "Most deaths in Iraq are from bombings."

Most deaths are by shooting, which is why there aren't many Americans being killed, it's mostly innocent Iraqis. Most US servicemen who are killed, are the victims of a bomb explosion.

7. "Baghdad and environs are especially violent but the death rate is lower in the rest of the country."

Most of the rest of the country, there are a couple of other hot spots, besides Baghdad. In 14 of 18 provinces, things are relatively peaceful, with little or no reports of violence.

8. "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror."

This is not something Bush came up with, or the Neocons dreamed up to boost support for Iraq. This is the actual testament of Osama Bin Laden. He has repeatedly said this was the central front in the war on terror... Is he "misleading" the American people?

9. "The Sunni Arab guerrillas in places like Ramadi will follow the US home to the American mainland and commit terrorism if we leave Iraq."

If we withdraw and indicate that we have "lost" in Iraq, they most certainly WILL! What do you think this is all about? Do you think, if we leave, they are just going to all lay down their weapons and say.. "great, we won! now let's go home!"? I kinda doubt that.

10. "Setting a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq is a bad idea."

It has been a bad idea, and still is a bad idea, that's why you haven't heard a set date for when we will withdraw, and won't. Will there come a day and time, when the US can officially announce a date? Maybe, but it will be when there is no threat of the insurgents overthrowing the government in a coup.
=======================================


Most of your list is crap. It's more of the same anti-American, anti-Democracy, pinhead rhetoric and propaganda, that we've heard you spew all along. Democrats are completely in charge of our future in Iraq, they can pass a bill to defund the war the first day of the new session, and effectively end the war in Iraq for the US. So, why are you trying to convince US? Write to your representatives and congressmen, they hold all the keys now!

You seem to keep thinking you are going to change some one's mind with this bullshit you keep posting. Is that the case? You looking to change some minds? Because, if you are doing that, it's an exercise in futility, you will not accomplish what you seek. Minds have been made up on this, you either agree or disagree with why we went into Iraq, you either agree or disagree that we should finish the job, you either agree or disagree that it was the right thing to do, and there isn't anything you can post to change those views.

Go back and try to find the last time I posted a thread, trying to convince you pinheads that Iraq is justified, and we shouldn't withdraw. I gave up trying to change your minds on this, because it was pointless. You've made your mind up, and nothing will ever change it. I will certainly express my opinions, and I will press you for answers to the tough questions, and hold you accountable for your actions. I will tell you what I think your ideas will cause, or how stupid you are about things, but as for trying to convince you to change your minds? I am mature enough to realize when this is not possible, and ain't going to happen. You're going to eventually have to come to that point as well, when you do, perhaps we can work together on a strategy and plan?

It's ridiculous for you to keep posting to "the other side" in attempts to persuade people to think like you on this, especially when they have little control in representative government to do anything about it. Your party won the election and control of Congress, your party has all the power they need to end this war in its tracks. Don't make your pleas to us! We don't have the political power to even hold onto Congress, what the hell are we supposed to do about it? Send your little "10 Myths" thing to Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, or Howard Dean!
 
Go back and try to find the last time I posted a thread, trying to convince you pinheads that Iraq is justified, and we shouldn't withdraw.
//

Yes, that must have been at least 3 months ago :) Remember the "total victory" thing dix ?
 
DIXIE: “Go back and try to find the last time I posted a thread, trying to convince you pinheads that Iraq is justified, and we shouldn't withdraw. I gave up trying to change your minds on this, because it was pointless.”



-DIXIE: Iraq: Al Qaeda's Vietnam!

"I've been crunching some numbers on the Iraq war lately, and I derived a startling conclusion. This war in Iraq, is al Qaeda's Vietnam! When you look at the number of alQaeda who have been killed or captured since the invasion, and compare it with the total number of alQaeda forces in the 'field of battle', it is remarkably similar to the ratio of fatalities we encountered during Vietnam….sooner or later they will decide that Iraq is just not worth "winning" and they would do better to cut their losses and withdraw!"



http://justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?t=1172&highlight=iraq
 
I wasn't trying to convince you to change your minds, I was merely expressing an opinion counter to yours. I still think Iraq is alQaeda's Vietnam is a valid statement, nothing has changed on my view, but I also accept you don't agree with this, and I don't continue to post it day after day, trying to convince you.

There isn't a helluva lot you can accomplish anyway, we don't control anything! Even if you somehow managed to defy odds and change the minds of the neocons, we don't fucking control anything, what are we supposed to do about it? We can vote more neocons out of office... do you think it will fix Iraq if all of Washington is of one political party and mind, and the rest of us are relegated to living in ponds with the rest of the scum? In the first place, it isn't going to happen, and in the second place, even if it did, it wouldn't fix Iraq.

It's time to step away from the Koolaid bowl, and try to begin the process of civilized debate and reason again. We can't accomplish anything as Americans, walking into the future backwards, we never have and never will. Stop the pandering and political gyrating, and start finding reasoned solutions to the problems, there are plenty of them you can be working on, and will indeed be held partially accountable for in the end. Whatever happens in Iraq now, is the result of policy initiated by the Pinheads, so you will share responsibility for your actions, and any failure will remove the onus from Bush's neck.
 
Dixie, on bipartisanship and civility after Democrats took control of congress:

-DIXIE: “It's time to step away from the Koolaid bowl, and try to begin the process of civilized debate and reason again. We can't accomplish anything as Americans, walking into the future backwards, we never have and never will. Stop the pandering and political gyrating, and start finding reasoned solutions to the problems”

*************************************************************

Dixie’s biapartisanship and civility when republicans controlled all branches of government:


-DIXIE: “I can be just as loud, obnoxious, and shrill as the Insane Democrat Party! If you maggots want to be traitors to the country, you're going to be treated as such, I will bitch slap you with this everyday if I have to, I have no plans to let it go!”

-DIXIE: “SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS! How dare you give us some quote from the Founding Fathers so you can maintain your stance on the Anti-American soapbox you are on! If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would recommend we ship your ass to Gitmo! TRAITOR!”

-Dixie: (“Bush) ought to call out the National Guard and round you fucktards up and send YOU to Gitmo! You are costing us lives, and in your blind ignorance, you refuse to shut your piehole and stop trying to turn this into Vietnam all over again! In my opinion, you are as bad as AlJazerah, or the vermin from France who support the maggots! You don't want us to WIN this war, and you're fucking bound and determined to prevent it if you can! You've made it all about Bush, and virtually ANYTHING INCLUDING TREASON is justified to you, if it means smearing him! What a bunch of pathetic scum!

-DIXIE: “hey shitpile... i'll tellya what you can do with your "suggestion".... shove it up your ass, where your moronic pinhead usually is. you have no authority or means to make me shut the fuck up, and if you would like to take a trip to birmingham, alabama and MAKE me, i'll be glad to let you attempt it.... unless that is your intention, i suggest you shut the fuck up, telling people to shut the fuck up!”

-DIXIE, July 2005: "Desh, I tell you what you obsessive little bitch... what goes around comes around! IF and WHEN your pathetic Socialist Party EVER gets back in power, you can look for me to be probing your asshole every fucking day and night for the slightest step out of line! I'll post every goddamn thing I suspect, and you worthless shitheads better not blow your damn noses wrong! God help your asses if Hillary gets elected, because every fucking day, you will have a new fire to put out and another new scandal on the horizon. Hell, I am a conservative, it suits me just fine if we freeze Washington for the next 20 years and don't pass any legislation for all the investigating of scandals... that's how you wanna play the game, it's going to be rough."

-DIXIE: You're Getting Bolton Dammit! Like it or not, John Bolton is going to be the new UN Ambassador! His nomination will move to the floor for a vote…. opposed to him are seeming more and more like little spoiled kids who didn't get their way. I hope and pray the Dumbocrats decide to filibuster this! GO FOR IT ASSHOLES! GO FOR IT! ------I DARE YA!


-DIXIE: There is a mechanism by which unqualified judges can be turned away... it's called "voting them down". Is "Democracy" too difficult for your Socialist ass to understand? Why is it, that after being defeated in the most recent elections, you think that 40% of Congress can run the show and call the shots? How much of a fucking majority do WE need now Care? 80% 90%... does it matter?


-DIXIE: You don't need to end the filibuster, just hold their feet to the fire, make those 40 bastards have to experience a good old fashioned filibuster, and wear their asses out. If it shuts down government for a week, we'll live. It's important that they learn this lesson now, and stop using this rule to intimidate their will on us. This is not why we elected Republicans! Stand up to these sons of bitches or we'll find candidates with the balls to do it in 2006.

-DIXIE: Personally, I don't care if they change the rules, they have that right according to the Constitution! What I do care about, is the subverting of the rules to obstruct judicial nominees. That practice is going to stop and it's going to stop NOW!

-DIXIE: You can whine and cry about it all you like, but that is how it's going to be, and you may as well get used to it!! Whether they use the "CONSTITUTIONAL OPTION" or hold the Democrats feet to the fire and shut down government for a few weeks, this shit is going to STOP! Have I made myself clear on that?

-DIXIE: I am only goin to tell you this one more time Care, and then I'm done with you on this.... THE FILIBUSTER WILL NO LONGER BE USED TO OBSTRUCT THE CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY OF THE PRESIDENT TO NOMINATE JUDGES!"……this shit is going to stop now, and there is not a hell of a lot you can do about it! Some of these judges have been held up for nearly 4 years, waiting to be confirmed so they can start hearing cases which are backing up more and more each day, while Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi try to make some Grande Political Issue out of the filibuster rule. If you want to go on thinking that the Republicans are in the wrong, that is fine... it's not like they are counting on YOUR support for a damn thing anyway!

-DIXIE: “the rules are the rules, and the majority is the majority!. I actively worked to get Republicans elected, supported a republican platform and agenda, and excercised my rights as a citizen, to change the political power structure in Congress. After all my hard work, and the hard work of others like me, we get to hear Democrats whine and pitch little baby fits, and demand that they be GIVEN something they haven't earned!
 
Dixie, on bipartisanship and civility after Democrats took control of congress:

-DIXIE: “It's time to step away from the Koolaid bowl, and try to begin the process of civilized debate and reason again. We can't accomplish anything as Americans, walking into the future backwards, we never have and never will. Stop the pandering and political gyrating, and start finding reasoned solutions to the problems”

*************************************************************

Dixie’s biapartisanship and civility when republicans controlled all branches of government:


-DIXIE: “I can be just as loud, obnoxious, and shrill as the Insane Democrat Party! If you maggots want to be traitors to the country, you're going to be treated as such, I will bitch slap you with this everyday if I have to, I have no plans to let it go!”

-DIXIE: “SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS! How dare you give us some quote from the Founding Fathers so you can maintain your stance on the Anti-American soapbox you are on! If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would recommend we ship your ass to Gitmo! TRAITOR!”

-Dixie: (“Bush) ought to call out the National Guard and round you fucktards up and send YOU to Gitmo! You are costing us lives, and in your blind ignorance, you refuse to shut your piehole and stop trying to turn this into Vietnam all over again! In my opinion, you are as bad as AlJazerah, or the vermin from France who support the maggots! You don't want us to WIN this war, and you're fucking bound and determined to prevent it if you can! You've made it all about Bush, and virtually ANYTHING INCLUDING TREASON is justified to you, if it means smearing him! What a bunch of pathetic scum!

-DIXIE: “hey shitpile... i'll tellya what you can do with your "suggestion".... shove it up your ass, where your moronic pinhead usually is. you have no authority or means to make me shut the fuck up, and if you would like to take a trip to birmingham, alabama and MAKE me, i'll be glad to let you attempt it.... unless that is your intention, i suggest you shut the fuck up, telling people to shut the fuck up!”

-DIXIE, July 2005: "Desh, I tell you what you obsessive little bitch... what goes around comes around! IF and WHEN your pathetic Socialist Party EVER gets back in power, you can look for me to be probing your asshole every fucking day and night for the slightest step out of line! I'll post every goddamn thing I suspect, and you worthless shitheads better not blow your damn noses wrong! God help your asses if Hillary gets elected, because every fucking day, you will have a new fire to put out and another new scandal on the horizon. Hell, I am a conservative, it suits me just fine if we freeze Washington for the next 20 years and don't pass any legislation for all the investigating of scandals... that's how you wanna play the game, it's going to be rough."

-DIXIE: You're Getting Bolton Dammit! Like it or not, John Bolton is going to be the new UN Ambassador! His nomination will move to the floor for a vote…. opposed to him are seeming more and more like little spoiled kids who didn't get their way. I hope and pray the Dumbocrats decide to filibuster this! GO FOR IT ASSHOLES! GO FOR IT! ------I DARE YA!


-DIXIE: There is a mechanism by which unqualified judges can be turned away... it's called "voting them down". Is "Democracy" too difficult for your Socialist ass to understand? Why is it, that after being defeated in the most recent elections, you think that 40% of Congress can run the show and call the shots? How much of a fucking majority do WE need now Care? 80% 90%... does it matter?


-DIXIE: You don't need to end the filibuster, just hold their feet to the fire, make those 40 bastards have to experience a good old fashioned filibuster, and wear their asses out. If it shuts down government for a week, we'll live. It's important that they learn this lesson now, and stop using this rule to intimidate their will on us. This is not why we elected Republicans! Stand up to these sons of bitches or we'll find candidates with the balls to do it in 2006.

-DIXIE: Personally, I don't care if they change the rules, they have that right according to the Constitution! What I do care about, is the subverting of the rules to obstruct judicial nominees. That practice is going to stop and it's going to stop NOW!

-DIXIE: You can whine and cry about it all you like, but that is how it's going to be, and you may as well get used to it!! Whether they use the "CONSTITUTIONAL OPTION" or hold the Democrats feet to the fire and shut down government for a few weeks, this shit is going to STOP! Have I made myself clear on that?

-DIXIE: I am only goin to tell you this one more time Care, and then I'm done with you on this.... THE FILIBUSTER WILL NO LONGER BE USED TO OBSTRUCT THE CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY OF THE PRESIDENT TO NOMINATE JUDGES!"……this shit is going to stop now, and there is not a hell of a lot you can do about it! Some of these judges have been held up for nearly 4 years, waiting to be confirmed so they can start hearing cases which are backing up more and more each day, while Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi try to make some Grande Political Issue out of the filibuster rule. If you want to go on thinking that the Republicans are in the wrong, that is fine... it's not like they are counting on YOUR support for a damn thing anyway!

-DIXIE: “the rules are the rules, and the majority is the majority!. I actively worked to get Republicans elected, supported a republican platform and agenda, and excercised my rights as a citizen, to change the political power structure in Congress. After all my hard work, and the hard work of others like me, we get to hear Democrats whine and pitch little baby fits, and demand that they be GIVEN something they haven't earned!

lol
 
1. Myth number one is that the United States "can still win" in Iraq.

We have to "win" in Iraq, it's not a matter of "if we can". If we don't win, the radical Islamofascists win, and that is not a good thing for us in the War on Terror.

2. "US military sweeps of neighborhoods can drive the guerrillas out."

The US military hasn't made an independent "sweep" of any neighborhood since Fallujah, three years ago. Most of the operations in Iraq, are conducted by trained Iraqi security forces, the decisions are made by Iraqi generals and leadership, and the US only plays a supporting role.

3. The United States is best off throwing all its support behind the Iraqi Shiites.

The US has never "thrown all its support" behind ANY single group, including Shiites. They have helped Sunni's, Shiites, and Kurds form a Unity Government, and promote a non-partisan cooperation between these groups. This said, Iraq is only about 20% Sunni, the Kurds and Shiites make up about 80% of the country, and the Sunni's seem to be the only group causing the trouble. Maybe Neocons should take a lesson from the Sunni's here, maybe that is how we get through your thick-headed tenaciousness here? We can just start becoming violent and blowing up liberals, and in a week, you'll be ready to "negotiate" with Cons! That's essentially what you are saying we should do here.

4. "Iraq is not in a civil war," as Jurassic conservative Fox commentator Bill O'Reilly insists.

It's not a civil war, in the traditional sense of a "civil war". There are not two armies, a divisional boundary, separate governments, etc. It's not like, North and South Iraq are in battle over the country. It is no more a "civil war" than the Watts Riots were a "civil war", in my opinion.

5. "The second Lancet study showing 600,000 excess deaths from political and criminal violence since the US invasion is somehow flawed."

It is flawed, most of the numbers coming out of Iraq are flawed, as you go on to explain. There is simply no way to know for certain, how many people have died in the war, and then... there is no way to tell if they died as a result of the war, or a private vendetta, or because of anti-Americanism, or anti-Shiaism, or just out of plain meanness. Even at 600,000... this is far less than the number of innocent Iraqi's Saddam is believed to have murdered during his reign, and it's also far less than the casualties of the Japanese, following two nuclear bombs.


6. "Most deaths in Iraq are from bombings."

Most deaths are by shooting, which is why there aren't many Americans being killed, it's mostly innocent Iraqis. Most US servicemen who are killed, are the victims of a bomb explosion.

7. "Baghdad and environs are especially violent but the death rate is lower in the rest of the country."

Most of the rest of the country, there are a couple of other hot spots, besides Baghdad. In 14 of 18 provinces, things are relatively peaceful, with little or no reports of violence.

8. "Iraq is the central front in the war on terror."

This is not something Bush came up with, or the Neocons dreamed up to boost support for Iraq. This is the actual testament of Osama Bin Laden. He has repeatedly said this was the central front in the war on terror... Is he "misleading" the American people?

9. "The Sunni Arab guerrillas in places like Ramadi will follow the US home to the American mainland and commit terrorism if we leave Iraq."

If we withdraw and indicate that we have "lost" in Iraq, they most certainly WILL! What do you think this is all about? Do you think, if we leave, they are just going to all lay down their weapons and say.. "great, we won! now let's go home!"? I kinda doubt that.

10. "Setting a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq is a bad idea."

It has been a bad idea, and still is a bad idea, that's why you haven't heard a set date for when we will withdraw, and won't. Will there come a day and time, when the US can officially announce a date? Maybe, but it will be when there is no threat of the insurgents overthrowing the government in a coup.
=======================================


Most of your list is crap. It's more of the same anti-American, anti-Democracy, pinhead rhetoric and propaganda, that we've heard you spew all along. Democrats are completely in charge of our future in Iraq, they can pass a bill to defund the war the first day of the new session, and effectively end the war in Iraq for the US. So, why are you trying to convince US? Write to your representatives and congressmen, they hold all the keys now!

You seem to keep thinking you are going to change some one's mind with this bullshit you keep posting. Is that the case? You looking to change some minds? Because, if you are doing that, it's an exercise in futility, you will not accomplish what you seek. Minds have been made up on this, you either agree or disagree with why we went into Iraq, you either agree or disagree that we should finish the job, you either agree or disagree that it was the right thing to do, and there isn't anything you can post to change those views.

Go back and try to find the last time I posted a thread, trying to convince you pinheads that Iraq is justified, and we shouldn't withdraw. I gave up trying to change your minds on this, because it was pointless. You've made your mind up, and nothing will ever change it. I will certainly express my opinions, and I will press you for answers to the tough questions, and hold you accountable for your actions. I will tell you what I think your ideas will cause, or how stupid you are about things, but as for trying to convince you to change your minds? I am mature enough to realize when this is not possible, and ain't going to happen. You're going to eventually have to come to that point as well, when you do, perhaps we can work together on a strategy and plan?

It's ridiculous for you to keep posting to "the other side" in attempts to persuade people to think like you on this, especially when they have little control in representative government to do anything about it. Your party won the election and control of Congress, your party has all the power they need to end this war in its tracks. Don't make your pleas to us! We don't have the political power to even hold onto Congress, what the hell are we supposed to do about it? Send your little "10 Myths" thing to Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, or Howard Dean!


Dixie, for the past four years, when it comes to iraq, you've been wrong about virtually everything.

In contrast, Dr. Juan Cole, who wrote this, has been right about virtually everything about iraq.

That's all that really needs to be said.
 
Did someone put some windowpane in the koolaid ?
Apparently. This is clearly the raving of someone on a bad trip:

We have to "win" in Iraq, it's not a matter of "if we can". If we don't win, the radical Islamofascists win, and that is not a good thing for us in the War on Terror.

That's exactly -- and I do mean exactly, within the tolerances of the best measurements humanly possible -- the same stupid-ass non-reasoning that got our butts kicked in Vietnam.

Someone needs to take these morons out and switch their buttendskis but good. They need to learn right from wrong.
 
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