Topper

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Topper, here is a great column by EJ Dionne from today's WAPO. This is only the first half of it, but I put the link to the whole thing below. Now, this is what I don't understand about you. You claim that Dems have been losing elections because they cater to the poor and not the middle class. Completely ignoring the fact that they have done no such thing! They have catered to the middle class.

Read this and maybe you will get the picture of where I am talking about going, and it DOES NOT hurt or attack the middle class at all. All it does is, finally, allow poverty and the faces of it, back into the national narrative. God knows, they've been missing for far too long.

Making The Poor Visible

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, July 20, 2007; A19

John Edwards may be running third in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, but he has already changed the national conversation on a crucial issue. Poverty is no longer a hidden subject in American politics.

Be as skeptical of Edwards as you want to be. Yes, he has had some trouble since he joined the 3-H Club -- the $400 haircut, building a 28,000-square-foot house and taking $500,000 in payments from a hedge fund. Yes, he has gotten political traction among liberals out of saying endlessly that ending poverty is "the cause of my life."

Moreover, Barack Obama was right to say Wednesday that his early community organizing work shows that poverty "is not an issue I just discovered for the purposes of a campaign." For that matter, Hillary Clinton began her professional life laboring to eradicate child poverty.

The difference is that by harping on the issue, Edwards -- whatever his motivations -- has forced Democrats to abandon their fear of being seen as too focused on the needs of the poor and has thus opened political space for his rivals.

Since the late 1980s, Democrats have been obsessed with the middle class for reasons of simple math: no middle-class votes, no electoral victories.

But focusing on the middle class is one thing. Keeping the poor in the political closet is another. Must appealing to the self-interest of the middle class preclude appealing to its conscience?

Democrats have lost enormous ground by allowing a myth to take hold that Lyndon Johnson's Great Society was a failure. "In the 1960s, we waged war on poverty, and poverty won" is one of the most powerful bits of rhetoric in the conservative arsenal.

Edwards took on this falsehood directly in his speech Wednesday in Prestonsburg, Ky., at the end of his tour of impoverished regions. "We accomplished a lot," he said of LBJ's time, "civil rights laws, Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps and Head Start and Title I aid for poor schools. The Great Society and other safety-net programs have cut the number of people living in poverty in half."

Edwards understands that unless the country is given hard evidence that government can succeed, it will never embrace government-led efforts at social reform
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/19/AR2007071901968_pf.html
 
Yeah , I did not make it up there to see Edwards. But I think bringing up the issues are good. What the people need are more jobs, Drug addiction rehab (mainly prescription drugs), and health care.
Poor people ordered by the court to attend rehab as a condition have to stay in jail due to the multi year long waiting list. Or get pulled back to jail because they cannot get into rehab.
Unless of course they have lots of money to go to private rehab...
 
nothing there except that Hillary and Obama shoved Edwards head up his ass as a Johnny come lately on the Poverty issue.

The dems HAVE been losing because they undershoot who the middle class is. I aggree their rhetoric says middle class there actions have been laugable.
Hopefully Hillary and Obama can Improve on what Bill has been able to law down.
At it's simplistic level, Dems have the Poverty vote and cons have the Rich vote. The middle and moderates are the tie break.
2008 is won if Hillary/Obama stay in the middle of the road, its 100% theirs to lose. Between Iraq 80%, and GW missteps 20% not the economics.
Too much discussion of poverty and tax increase scares middle class taxpayers as they rightfully feel they pay too much already.:clink:
 
good article

"We accomplished a lot," he said of LBJ's time, "civil rights laws, Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps and Head Start and Title I aid for poor schools. The Great Society and other safety-net programs have cut the number of people living in poverty in half."

This is why I had those threads on the New Deal and the Great Society, and challenged cons who profess to hate them, to specifically identify which parts of the New Deal and Great Society they would eliminate.

And as we've seen, while they can identify a few discrete programs they hate and would eliminate, broadly speaking they really can't say much bad about the broader agendas of these great progressive movements (other than tinkering around the margins of implementation, perhaps)
 
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm for more food stamps, more pell grants, free college just less class warfare discussions. Take the money from the chickenhawk funds.
 
"The dems HAVE been losing because they undershoot who the middle class is."

I'd be interested to hear how you'd back that up. You said that before about the 2000 & '04 elections. What do you have to support that?
 
I've heard plenty analyst say the same. You turbo-libs love the class warfare so much your blinded by it.
? Do you see Hillary/Obama courting big business more than dems have in the past. Take a look at fortunes list of who's in each of their camps.
 
I've heard plenty analyst say the same. You turbo-libs love the class warfare so much your blinded by it.
? Do you see Hillary/Obama courting big business more than dems have in the past. Take a look at fortunes list of who's in each of their camps.

"Plenty of analysts." That's a good one.

FYI - Gore WON the popular vote. In America, that's meaningless as far as getting elected, but it DOES mean his message resonated with MORE people.

Kerry's loss has been pinned to everything from the swiftvets, to his wishy washy stance on Iraq, to his mannerisms, and to the fact that he ran an absolutely abysmal campaign. I have never heard any - much less plenty - of analysts point to "class warfare."

Proving, once again, that you are an idiot...
 
Nice job though at being a shit stirre one, as usual no debate or points from you just critisism.
My issue is like third-ways, expand the democratic party by going up the wealth ladder a little. Sorry that offends your far left sensibilities
 
I'll correct myself somewhat. IRAQ will be a difinitive reason and was so in 06

So, you acknowledge that Iraq was a DEFINITIVE reason for Kerry's loss in '04?

That leaves us with Gore, who won over 2 million more Americans over to his side.

Great point, tops. What was it again?
 
Nice job though at being a shit stirre one, as usual no debate or points from you just critisism.
My issue is like third-ways, expand the democratic party by going up the wealth ladder a little. Sorry that offends your far left sensibilities


Your issue is all over the board. When people talk about common sense platforms like helping with college & medical costs, you accuse them of class warfare & try to convince everyone that the middle class is "fat & happy," though you later generally agree that such a platform makes sense.

You're a fucking idiot. You're all over the board on this one; sometimes, you take issue with a post simply because you don't like how it "sounds", even though you might agree with the basic sentiment. The things that Clinton & Obama are talking about with regard to the poor & middle class are not really all that different from what both Gore & Kerry talked about. If anything, Hillary is more extreme with her platform on healthcare.

Clue up, toppy - I'm tired of watching you argue with yourself...
 
Your issue is all over the board. When people talk about common sense platforms like helping with college & medical costs, you accuse them of class warfare & try to convince everyone that the middle class is "fat & happy," though you later generally agree that such a platform makes sense.

You're a fucking idiot. You're all over the board on this one; sometimes, you take issue with a post simply because you don't like how it "sounds", even though you might agree with the basic sentiment. The things that Clinton & Obama are talking about with regard to the poor & middle class are not really all that different from what both Gore & Kerry talked about. If anything, Hillary is more extreme with her platform on healthcare.

Clue up, toppy - I'm tired of watching you argue with yourself...

You are? I never get tired of watching Topper argue with himself. I always wonder, who is going to come out on top today? It's great entertainment.
 
Onedumbass, I have never argued against college support or most of the other things your claiming idiot.

And I said Iraq was the reason in 06 and will be in 08, never mentioned kerry.
HIs incompetence as a campaigner killed him. He took lessons from Dukakis.
So again, no freaking opinions or suggestions from onedumbass just attacking topspin, moron:pke:
 
Onedumbass, I have never argued against college support or most of the other things your claiming idiot.

And I said Iraq was the reason in 06 and will be in 08, never mentioned kerry.
HIs incompetence as a campaigner killed him. He took lessons from Dukakis.
So again, no freaking opinions or suggestions from onedumbass just attacking topspin, moron:pke:


You implied before that Iraq was a factor in both '04 & '06 (brilliant, btw).

I agree that Kerry's campaign was truly awful, and said so earlier in this thread.

So...what are you left with, for your claim that "turbo lib class warfare" is the reason that Dems lost in both 2000 & 2004?

This is what I mean when I say you're debating with yourself.
 
I clearly said Iraq 06 and hopefully 08
IF you say you've never hear that class warfare doesn't hurt the dems and don't agree with it at least a little your as far left on economics as they come and not open to changing the party line:readit:
 
""Because if you're white you can't have any flavor whatsoever in this country. I can come out in every single interview and say, 'You know what, I'm glad to represent my people, the Hispanic culture and I'm proud of who I am,' and everybody thinks that's cool. If you're white and you have a bumper sticker that says 'I'm white and I'm proud of it,' you will get rocked, you will get shot at and you will get white people pulling you over, calling you a racist piece of (bleep)." - Carlos Mencia

LOL, ain't that the truth.... freakin KKK and slavery ruined it all for us.
 
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