Torture USA

Cancel7

Banned
I think that Eric Alterman really nails it here, especially at the end. That's right, you'd have to be outraged all of the time, and not only does nobody want to be like that, but, nobody cares. You get called "shrill", or "a hater" or the all popular "false outrager". Because all outrage must be false to those who feel none.

And take note that the status of american citizens is "unclear" at this time. Feel good?

Police-State Update:

"Yes, there's that shrillness again. I read in today's Times, ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10scotus.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ) that the Supreme Court will not "hear an appeal by a German citizen of Lebanese descent who claims he was abducted by United States agents and then tortured by them while imprisoned in Afghanistan. Without comment, the justices let stand an appeals court ruling that the state secrets privilege, a judicially created doctrine that the Bush administration has invoked to win dismissal of lawsuits that touch on issues of national security, protected the government's actions from court review."

What does this mean in practice? It means the U.S. government can kidnap at will and arrange for the torture of anyone in the world (though the status of U.S. citizens in these instances remains unclear). Even to write those words makes the idea sound outlandish, but the fact is, that's just what they do. They are accessories in kidnapping and torture and, while I suppose they think they have the best interests of the country at heart, they are so deluded, so incompetent, so-self-righteous, and so extremist in their beliefs that they really do constitute a danger to humankind. And now we learn there's nothing in our legal system to stop them. And they don't even have to face and there's no prospect of impeachment and hence, I'd say our political system has truly gone off its rails. Once again, the genius is you can't keep up with all the scandals. You'd have to be outraged, all the time, about almost everything. And who wants that?

http://mediamatters.org/altercation/?f=h_column
 
I think that Eric Alterman really nails it here, especially at the end. That's right, you'd have to be outraged all of the time, and not only does nobody want to be like that, but, nobody cares. You get called "shrill", or "a hater" or the all popular "false outrager". Because all outrage must be false to those who feel none.

And take note that the status of american citizens is "unclear" at this time. Feel good?

Police-State Update:

"Yes, there's that shrillness again. I read in today's Times, ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10scotus.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ) that the Supreme Court will not "hear an appeal by a German citizen of Lebanese descent who claims he was abducted by United States agents and then tortured by them while imprisoned in Afghanistan. Without comment, the justices let stand an appeals court ruling that the state secrets privilege, a judicially created doctrine that the Bush administration has invoked to win dismissal of lawsuits that touch on issues of national security, protected the government's actions from court review."

What does this mean in practice? It means the U.S. government can kidnap at will and arrange for the torture of anyone in the world (though the status of U.S. citizens in these instances remains unclear). Even to write those words makes the idea sound outlandish, but the fact is, that's just what they do. They are accessories in kidnapping and torture and, while I suppose they think they have the best interests of the country at heart, they are so deluded, so incompetent, so-self-righteous, and so extremist in their beliefs that they really do constitute a danger to humankind. And now we learn there's nothing in our legal system to stop them. And they don't even have to face and there's no prospect of impeachment and hence, I'd say our political system has truly gone off its rails. Once again, the genius is you can't keep up with all the scandals. You'd have to be outraged, all the time, about almost everything. And who wants that?

http://mediamatters.org/altercation/?f=h_column
What I think no one that supports the Administration on this issue understand is that SOMEDAY, there is going to be a government that the majority of people left right and center don't like, that act in their own self interest and not the interest of the people. And when that day comes, Bush will be responsible for them being able to listen to ALL of us and claim national security. They will be able to detain ALL of us and claim we are an enemy combatant. And then it will be to late.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
attributed to Martin Niemoller
 
onion_news2861.jpg
 
What I think no one that supports the Administration on this issue understand is that SOMEDAY, there is going to be a government that the majority of people left right and center don't like, that act in their own self interest and not the interest of the people. And when that day comes, Bush will be responsible for them being able to listen to ALL of us and claim national security. They will be able to detain ALL of us and claim we are an enemy combatant. And then it will be to late.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
attributed to Martin Niemoller

Exactly...I know. It is like banging your head against the wall to get that through. But, it's too bad that the only interest appears to be self-interest for so many, in the first place. It shouldn't have to be affecting YOU personally, right now, in order for you to care.
 
Exactly...I know. It is like banging your head against the wall to get that through. But, it's too bad that the only interest appears to be self-interest for so many, in the first place. It shouldn't have to be affecting YOU personally, right now, in order for you to care.
But when that day comes, I will be able to fight for my freedom. I may die doing it but I will give someother son of a bitch the same opportunity to die defending that form of government.
 
WTF happened to this country?

My brother was a life-long republican, but he would have been horrified at government-sanctioned torture. And yes, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, induced hypothermia, and stress positions are torture. We don't need to go through those fullpolitics posts where bush voters were claiming that those techniques did not amount to torture.

What is going on? Republican candidates at presidential debates try to outdo each other about who's going to torture more, who is going to be like Jack Bauer, and who is going to expand Gitmo the most -- to the blood lust roar of the gathered repubican audience.
 
WTF happened to this country?

My brother was a life-long republican, but he would have been horrified at government-sanctioned torture. And yes, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, induced hypothermia, and stress positions are torture. We don't need to go through those fullpolitics posts where bush voters were claiming that those techniques did not amount to torture.

What is going on? Republican candidates at presidential debates try to outdo each other about who's going to torture more, who is going to be like Jack Bauer, and who is going to expand Gitmo the most -- to the blood lust roar of the gathered repubican audience.

I don't know, could it be a "kink"? Maybe we need Damo's input on this?
 
Greed , fear, hatred, etc have been promoted and have caused a moral degeneration in our country.
 
Last edited:
Greed , fear, hatred, etc have been promoted and havr caused a moral degeneration in our country.

I don't think the neocons caused the moral degeneration of some americans. I think they just brought it out of them, and made it publically acceptable to cheer for torture at a GOP debate.
 
Back
Top