APP - Trump and Totalitarianism

[midcan5]

"Movements thrive on the destruction of reality. Because the real world confronts us with challenges and obstructions, reality is uncertain, messy, and unsettling. Movements work to create alternate realities that offer adherents a stable and empowering place in the world." (link below)

The OP below is an excellent piece on Trump's person. Trump followers beware you may gain some insight which is confusing and extremely rare in the fearful follower's mind.

http://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-loneliness-of-donald-trump/

"The reason fact-checking is ineffective today — at least in convincing those who are members of movements — is that the mobilized members of a movement are confounded by a world resistant to their wishes and prefer the promise of a consistent alternate world to reality. When Donald Trump says he’s going to build a wall to protect our borders, he is not making a factual statement that an actual wall will actually protect our borders; he is signaling a politically incorrect willingness to put America first. When he says that there was massive voter fraud or boasts about the size of his inauguration crowd, he is not speaking about actual facts, but is insisting that his election was legitimate. “What convinces masses are not facts, and not even invented facts, but only the consistency of the system of which they are presumably part.”

[..]

"What Arendt shows in Origins is that movements are so dangerous and can be central elements of totalitarianism because they provide the psychological conditions for “total loyalty,” the kind of unquestioned loyalty Trump rightly understands himself to possess among his most faithful supporters. “Such loyalty,” she writes, “can be expected only from the completely isolated human being who, without any other social ties to family, friends, comrades, or even mere acquaintances, derives his sense of having a place in the world only from his belonging to a movement.”

"Simone Weil wrote that “to be rooted is perhaps the most important and least recognized need of the human soul.” The modern condition of rootlessness is a foundational experience of totalitarianism; totalitarian movements succeed when they offer rootless people what they most crave: an ideologically consistent world aiming at grand narratives that give meaning to their lives. By consistently repeating a few key ideas, a manipulative leader provides a sense of rootedness grounded upon a coherent fiction that is “consistent, comprehensible, and predictable.”

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/arendt-matters-revisiting-origins-totalitarianism/

And

https://onbeing.org/programs/lyndse...iendship-in-dark-times-hannah-arendt-for-now/

https://www.juancole.com/2017/06/watching-trump-voter.html


Must Reading: 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder

'The Trouble with Reality: A Rumination on Moral Panic in Our Time' by Brooke Gladstone


"The supreme mystery of despotism, its prop and stay, is to keep men in a state of deception, and with the specious title of religion to cloak the fear by which they must be held in check, so that they will fight for their servitude as if for salvation." Baruch Spinoza
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[canceled.2021.3]

So you think Trump is going to turn us into he former Soviet Union? Really?

Can you please elucidate which of your freedoms you have lost since Trump assumed office?

 

[midcan5]

So you think Trump is going to turn us into he former Soviet Union? Really?

Can you please elucidate which of your freedoms you have lost since Trump assumed office?

Russia was communist not totalitarian, at least it was communist in name. Totalitarian came from Italy in 1920, and it is similar to Trump's call to make America great again. It is extreme nationalism in a word. Lots of words get bandied about but mean little. Trump has only been in office four months, during that time he has tried to deny freedom to many. These conversations are not always about me or you, they are bigger than us. I suggest you read Arendt if you are interested and a shorter explanation is 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder.

"The supreme mystery of despotism, its prop and stay, is to keep men in a state of deception, and with the specious title of religion to cloak the fear by which they must be held in check, so that they will fight for their servitude as if for salvation." Baruch Spinoza

 

[canceled.2021.3]

Russia was communist not totalitarian, at least it was communist in name. Totalitarian came from Italy in 1920, and it is similar to Trump's call to make America great again. It is extreme nationalism in a word. Lots of words get bandied about but mean little. Trump has only been in office four months, during that time he has tried to deny freedom to many. These conversations are not always about me or you, they are bigger than us. I suggest you read Arendt if you are interested and a shorter explanation is 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder.

"The supreme mystery of despotism, its prop and stay, is to keep men in a state of deception, and with the specious title of religion to cloak the fear by which they must be held in check, so that they will fight for their servitude as if for salvation." Baruch Spinoza

It is kind of stunning the you think the Soviet Union wasn't totalitarian.

OK so we have established that YOUR freedoms haven't been curtailed. Tell me whose freedoms have been curtailed?

 

[midcan5]

It is kind of stunning the you think the Soviet Union wasn't totalitarian.

OK so we have established that YOUR freedoms haven't been curtailed. Tell me whose freedoms have been curtailed?

Regarding Russia check out Stalinism. Totalitarians want control and they want loyal followers, in a another word blind followers. Yesterday you saw republican bow to their leader, a sight most Americans cannot even imagine. When you blindly obey you lose your freedom. Trump's cabinet and inner circle have relinquished the freedom that comes with being an American.

While the courts have rightly overturned Trump's unconstitutional ban on travel, that has had consequences. Immigrant families residing in America are also fearful and while some entered without permissions only one nationality is being targeted. Freedom of the press has been challenged repeatedly, and the biggest loss of freedom is to those American who have healthcare under the ACA. The destruction of an Act that has passed SCOTUS as law is a disgrace and for Trump a reversal of an election promise. This administration has just begun. More to follow should government bow down to Trumpism and the corporate conservative complex.

Another example of loss, the air you breath you sites you want to see. https://www.nrdc.org/trump-watch

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Regarding Russia check out Stalinism. Totalitarians want control and they want loyal followers, in a another word blind followers. Yesterday you saw republican bow to their leader, a sight most Americans cannot even imagine. When you blindly obey you lose your freedom. Trump's cabinet and inner circle have relinquished the freedom that comes with being an American.

While the courts have rightly overturned Trump's unconstitutional ban on travel, that has had consequences. Immigrant families residing in America are also fearful and while some entered without permissions only one nationality is being targeted. Freedom of the press has been challenged repeatedly, and the biggest loss of freedom is to those American who have healthcare under the ACA. The destruction of an Act that has passed SCOTUS as law is a disgrace and for Trump a reversal of an election promise. This administration has just begun. More to follow should government bow down to Trumpism and the corporate conservative complex.

Another example of loss, the air you breath you sites you want to see. https://www.nrdc.org/trump-watch

I didn't see the cabinet meeting everyone is all a dither over so I can't comment

Healthcare is not a right

Illegal immigrants don't have a right to come here

Do you have anything that aren't made up rights?

 

[Canceled.2018.1]

Many see Trump as the person who could bring back some sense of law and order. If some call that totalitarian, so be it. I think that people are just tired of being overrun by illegals, by threats from rogue regimes and terrorists, not to mention the deep seated DC politicians who take their job for granted.
So they elected someone who thinks outside the box.
We should listen to why Trump got elected, seek out the cause of the disease, instead of finding new ways of bitching about the symptoms.

Edit...Bernie fan, so read what I wrote carefully instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

[midcan5]

I didn't see the cabinet meeting everyone is all a dither over so I can't comment

Healthcare is not a right

Illegal immigrants don't have a right to come here

Do you have anything that aren't made up rights?

All rights are made up, I think I have said that before. They are social constructs and as such determined by us. According to our Preamble promoting the welfare constitutes something and something for many Americans is healthcare. And immigrants have a right to come here, and foreigners have a right to travel here.

Many see Trump as the person who could bring back some sense of law and order. If some call that totalitarian, so be it. I think that people are just tired of being overrun by illegals, by threats from rogue regimes and terrorists, not to mention the deep seated DC politicians who take their job for granted.
So they elected someone who thinks outside the box.
We should listen to why Trump got elected, seek out the cause of the disease, instead of finding new ways of bitching about the symptoms.

Edit...Bernie fan, so read what I wrote carefully instead of jumping to conclusions.

I lost all respect for Sanders when he started to parrot the right wing republicans on Hillary's honesty and transparency. If you'd like to know why, consult 'The Destruction of Hillary Clinton' by Susan Bordo.

Sanders and his blind followers are part of the reason we have a narcissistic moron as president.


"We live in a society in which spurious realities are manufactured by the media, by governments, by big corporations, by religious groups, political groups. I ask, in my writing, 'What is real?' Because unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms." Philip K. Dick

 

[canceled.2021.3]

All rights are made up, I think I have said that before. They are social constructs and as such determined by us. According to our Preamble promoting the welfare constitutes something and something for many Americans is healthcare. And immigrants have a right to come here, and foreigners have a right to travel here.




I lost all respect for Sanders when he started to parrot the right wing republicans on Hillary's honesty and transparency. If you'd like to know why, consult 'The Destruction of Hillary Clinton' by Susan Bordo.

Sanders and his blind followers are part of the reason we have a narcissistic moron as president.


"We live in a society in which spurious realities are manufactured by the media, by governments, by big corporations, by religious groups, political groups. I ask, in my writing, 'What is real?' Because unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms." Philip K. Dick

It is clear that you do not understand what a right is. I am still waiting on you to debate me about censorship. Come on. Whatcha waitin for?

 

[midcan5]

It is clear that you do not understand what a right is. I am still waiting on you to debate me about censorship. Come on. Whatcha waitin for?

A right is a social construct that has to be obvious. Tell me what you think a right is?

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

Kinda simple don't you think.

 

[canceled.2021.3]

A right is a social construct that has to be obvious. Tell me what you think a right is?

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

Kinda simple don't you think.

Still waiting to debate censorship with you. You can't complain about being thread banned when given the opportunity to debate me one on one you run away.

 

[midcan5]

Still waiting to debate censorship with you. You can't complain about being thread banned when given the opportunity to debate me one on one you run away.

I've already answered and so long as I am constantly censored I'll remain a freedom loving American. Play fair and I'll play, censor and you can talk to yourself till doomsday.

 

[canceled.2021.3]

I've already answered and so long as I am constantly censored I'll remain a freedom loving American. Play fair and I'll play, censor and you can talk to yourself till doomsday.

You had your chance. Good day

 

[midcan5]

You had your chance. Good day

My point stands, thanks, I'm glad you finally agree that you censor and your recent threads once again confirm that fact.

On Topic:

Trump's rallies were examples of the inroads of totalitarianism today. Quote below from a must read book.

"Because the American federal government uses mercenaries in warfare and American state governments pay corporations to run prisons, the use of violence in the United States is already highly privatized. What is novel is a president who wishes to maintain, while in office, a personal security force which during his campaign used force against dissenters. As a candidate, the president ordered a private security detail to clear opponents from rallies, but also encouraged the audience itself to remove people who expressed different opinions. A protester would first be greeted with boos, then with frenetic cries of "USA," and then be forced to leave the rally. At one campaign rally the candidate said, "There's a remnant left over. Maybe get the remnant out. Get the remnant out." The crowd, taking its cue, then tried to root out other people who might be dissenters, all the while crying "USA." The candidate interjected:

"Isn't this more fun than a regular boring rally? To me, it's fun." This kind of mob violence was meant to transform the political atmosphere, and it did."

p43 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder


"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

 

[canceled.2021.3]

My point stands, thanks, I'm glad you finally agree that you censor and your recent threads once again confirm that fact.

On Topic:

Trump's rallies were examples of the inroads of totalitarianism today. Quote below from a must read book.

"Because the American federal government uses mercenaries in warfare and American state governments pay corporations to run prisons, the use of violence in the United States is already highly privatized. What is novel is a president who wishes to maintain, while in office, a personal security force which during his campaign used force against dissenters. As a candidate, the president ordered a private security detail to clear opponents from rallies, but also encouraged the audience itself to remove people who expressed different opinions. A protester would first be greeted with boos, then with frenetic cries of "USA," and then be forced to leave the rally. At one campaign rally the candidate said, "There's a remnant left over. Maybe get the remnant out. Get the remnant out." The crowd, taking its cue, then tried to root out other people who might be dissenters, all the while crying "USA." The candidate interjected:

"Isn't this more fun than a regular boring rally? To me, it's fun." This kind of mob violence was meant to transform the political atmosphere, and it did."

p43 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder


"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

I don't believe you actually read these books.

BTW, I can't censor you. Just because you repeat it over and over again doesn't make it true

 

[midcan5]

I don't believe you actually read these books.

BTW, I can't censor you. Just because you repeat it over and over again doesn't make it true

LOL so the quote and page came from where? Think, stop engaging in ad hominem.

Censorship: Members banned from this thread: midcan5

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

And stop wasting our time with non answers, you sound like a child. Address the topic, I should censor you as you add nothing of substance.

Back on Topic:

"The simple picture Trump is trying to convey is that there is wild disorder, because of American citizens of African-American descent, and immigrants. He is doing it as a display of strength, showing he is able to define reality and lead others to accept his authoritarian value system.

The chief authoritarian values are law and order. In Trump’s value system, nonwhites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order. Trump knows that reality does not call for a value-system like his; violent crime is at almost historic lows in the United States. Trump is thundering about a crime wave of historic proportions, because he is an authoritarian using his speech to define a simple reality that legitimates his value system, leading voters to adopt it. Its strength is that it conveys his power to define reality. Its weakness is that it obviously contradicts it." Jason Stanley https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/opinion/beyond-lying-donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html

 

[canceled.2021.3]

LOL so the quote and page came from where? Think, stop engaging in ad hominem.

Censorship: Members banned from this thread: midcan5

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

And stop wasting our time with non answers, you sound like a child. Address the topic, I should censor you as you add nothing of substance.

Back on Topic:

"The simple picture Trump is trying to convey is that there is wild disorder, because of American citizens of African-American descent, and immigrants. He is doing it as a display of strength, showing he is able to define reality and lead others to accept his authoritarian value system.

The chief authoritarian values are law and order. In Trump’s value system, nonwhites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order. Trump knows that reality does not call for a value-system like his; violent crime is at almost historic lows in the United States. Trump is thundering about a crime wave of historic proportions, because he is an authoritarian using his speech to define a simple reality that legitimates his value system, leading voters to adopt it. Its strength is that it conveys his power to define reality. Its weakness is that it obviously contradicts it." Jason Stanley https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/opinion/beyond-lying-donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html

The very definition you use PROVES me right and you wrong. I cannot censor you.

Am I the government? No
Am I a media outlet? No
Am I in a position of authority over you? No
Am I a group? No
Am I an institution? No

I am an individual. No where in the definition you took the time to produce indicates that an INDIVIDUAL can censor another individual. All of those that are listed have one thing in common. In some way or another they are in a position of power over another individual. I do not fulfill that requirement.

I will humbly accept your apology. Please feel free to post a link to yet another obscure quote and book you haven't read trying to prove a nonexistent point

 

[midcan5]

The very definition you use PROVES me right and you wrong. I cannot censor you.

Am I the government? No
Am I a media outlet? No
Am I in a position of authority over you? No
Am I a group? No
Am I an institution? No

I am an individual. No where in the definition you took the time to produce indicates that an INDIVIDUAL can censor another individual. All of those that are listed have one thing in common. In some way or another they are in a position of power over another individual. I do not fulfill that requirement.

I will humbly accept your apology. Please feel free to post a link to yet another obscure quote and book you haven't read trying to prove a nonexistent point

You are a member of a group JPP and you censor. "Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others." You are also are in a position of authority in that as a member of JPP the mods have allowed you the permission to censor. You can play with words all you like, but when you suppress speech you censor. Stop censoring people on JPP and we'll stop calling you what you demonstrate by your actions. When you allow freedom of speech for all you'll cease being a censor. You can hide all you want but your actions speak for you.

Even the dictionary is clear: censor- any person who controls or suppresses the behavior of others, usually on moral grounds.

And again you filling a thread with your off topic nonsense, but in America we are free to speak our mind and calling you out is kinda fun.

 

[canceled.2021.3]

You are a member of a group JPP and you censor. "Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others." You are also are in a position of authority in that as a member of JPP the mods have allowed you the permission to censor. You can play with words all you like, but when you suppress speech you censor. Stop censoring people on JPP and we'll stop calling you what you demonstrate by your actions. When you allow freedom of speech for all you'll cease being a censor. You can hide all you want but your actions speak for you.

Even the dictionary is clear: censor- any person who controls or suppresses the behavior of others, usually on moral grounds.

And again you filling a thread with your off topic nonsense, but in America we are free to speak our mind and calling you out is kinda fun.

If I could truly censor you here, you wouldn't be able to post at all. But yet here you are posting your opinions. I have not stopped from posting on anything you want to talk about nor can I.

Case closed. You lose again.

 

[midcan5]

On topic, it is interesting the way language is used in America today, the destruction of Hillary Clinton and bombast of Donald Trump are key examples. A book I quoted above gives twenty lessons on recognizing tyranny, a section from number 9 is quoted below.

# 9 Be kind to our language. "Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that, thing you think everyone is saying. Make an effort to separate yourself from the internet. Read books."

"Victor Klemperer, a literary scholar of Jewish origin, turned his philological training against Nazi propaganda. He noticed how Hitler's language rejected legitimate opposition: The people always meant some people and not others (the president [Trump] uses the word in this way), encounters were always struggles (the president says winning), and any attempt by free people to understand the world in a different way was defamation of the leader (or, as the president puts it, libel).

Politicians in our times feed their cliches to television, where even those who wish to disagree repeat them. Television purports to challenge political language by conveying images, but the succession from one frame to another can hinder a sense of resolution. Everything happens fast, but nothing actually happens. Each story on televised news is "breaking" until it is displaced by the next one. So we are hit by wave upon wave but never see the ocean.

The effort to define the shape and significance of events requires words and concepts that elude us when we are entranced by visual stimuli. Watching televised news is sometimes little more than looking at someone who is also looking at a picture. We take this collective trance to be normal. We have slowly fallen into it.

More than half a century ago, the classic novels of totalitarianism warned of the domination of screens, the suppression of books, the narrowing of vocabularies, and the associated difficulties of thought. In Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, published in 1953, firemen find and burn books while most citizens watch interactive television. In George Orwel1's 1984, published in 1949, books are banned and television is two-way, allowing the government to observe citizens at all times. In 1984, the language of visual media is highly constrained, to starve the public of the concepts needed to think about the present, remember the past, and consider the future. One of the regime's projects is to limit the language further by eliminating ever more words with each edition of the official dictionary." page 60-61 'On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century' by Timothy Snyder


"History shows that there is nothing so easy to enslave and nothing so hard to emancipate as ignorance, hence it becomes the double enemy of civilization. By its servility it is the prey of tyranny, and by its credulity it is the foe of enlightenment." Lemuel K. Washburn