Trump pressuring Pence to steal the election, BUT......

floridafan

Verified User
Legal experts say it cant work!

President Donald Trump has sent strong signals that he expects Vice President Mike Pence to hand him re-election when Congress meets Jan. 6 to count Electoral College votes.

The vice president will preside over that joint session, and Trump and some of his Republican congressional allies are leaning heavily on Pence to change the outcome of the Nov. 3 election won by Democrat Joe Biden, but legal experts Neal Katyal and John Monsky wrote a New York Times column explaining that his authority in that process is fairly limited.

"Nothing in either the text of the Constitution or the Electoral Count Act gives the vice president any substantive powers," the pair wrote. "His powers are ministerial, and that circumscribed role makes general sense: The whole point of an election is to let the people decide who will rule them. If an incumbent could simply maneuver to keep himself in office — after all, a maneuver to protect Mr. Trump also protects Mr. Pence — the most foundational precept of our government would be gravely undermined. In America, 'we the people,' not 'we, the vice president,' control our destiny.

Article II of the Constitution and the 12th Amendment both say Electoral College votes are to be opened by the president of the Senate, meaning the vice president, and Congress intentionally limited the presiding officer's authority with the Electoral Count Act in 1887 to prevent another chaotic count like the one that followed the 1876 election.

Both Article II of the Constitution and the 12th Amendment say that the votes of the Electoral College are to be opened by the "president of the Senate," meaning the vice president. The Electoral Count Act, passed in 1887 to avoid chaotic counts like the one that followed the 1876 election, adds important details. It provides a detailed timeline to tabulate electoral votes, culminating with the final count to take place on Jan. 6, and it delineates the powers of the vice president.

They guarded against any pretense he might have to throw out a particular state's votes, saying that the vice president must open 'all certificates and papers purporting to be' electoral votes," Katyal and Monsky wrote. "They further said, in the event of a dispute, both chambers of Congress would have to disagree with a particular state's slate of electoral votes to reject them. And they made it difficult for Congress to disagree, adding measures such as a 'safe harbor' provision and deference to certification by state officials."

All of the president's legal challenges have lost, and the results have been certified by the states and electors have duly cast their ballots, so there's nothing Trump or Pence can do to stop their re-election loss under the rules spelled out in the Constitution and the Electoral Count Act
https://www.rawstory.com/electoral-college-2020/
 
This half-baked tRump idea means that tRump did not bother to read the Constitution or did not understand what he read.
The REAL problem is the traitors that still support this ridiculous attempt at overthrowing our democracy.
 
This half-baked tRump idea means that tRump did not bother to read the Constitution or did not understand what he read.
The REAL problem is the traitors that still support this ridiculous attempt at overthrowing our democracy.

He has various legal ppl telling him to keep pushing this fantasy, as well as the talking heads on Fox that give him his orders. You're right -- this is sedition.
 
This half-baked tRump idea means that tRump did not bother to read the Constitution or did not understand what he read.
The REAL problem is the traitors that still support this ridiculous attempt at overthrowing our democracy.

There are a number of Deplorables on this forum who have openly begged for martial law, overturning the election, thwarting the will of the voter.

Even if only ten percent of garden variety Deplorables are openly embracing fascism, one has to speculate on how many of them covertly support it but are unwilling to say it in public.

My opinion: over half the Deplorables here would be thrilled if Congress or partisan state legislators overturned the election results in swing states Biden won, or they would support martial law and an election "do-over" in swing states Trump lost
 
There are a number of Deplorables on this forum who have openly begged for martial law, overturning the election, thwarting the will of the voter.

Even if only ten percent of garden variety Deplorables are openly embracing fascism, one has to speculate on how many of them covertly support it but are unwilling to say it in public.

My opinion: over half the Deplorables here would be thrilled if Congress or partisan state legislators overturned the election results in swing states Biden won, or they would support martial law and an election do-over in swing states Trump lost

tRumpliv er rs are simply unpatriotic cowards.
 
This half-baked tRump idea means that tRump did not bother to read the Constitution or did not understand what he read.
The REAL problem is the traitors that still support this ridiculous attempt at overthrowing our democracy.

No would be dictator cares about a constitution.
 
Hello ThatOwlWoman,

He has various legal ppl telling him to keep pushing this fantasy, as well as the talking heads on Fox that give him his orders. You're right -- this is sedition.

They are simply the people that the president pays to tell him what he wants to hear.

Fantasies of his magnitude require institutional support.
 
Legal experts say it cant work!

President Donald Trump has sent strong signals that he expects Vice President Mike Pence to hand him re-election when Congress meets Jan. 6 to count Electoral College votes.

The vice president will preside over that joint session, and Trump and some of his Republican congressional allies are leaning heavily on Pence to change the outcome of the Nov. 3 election won by Democrat Joe Biden, but legal experts Neal Katyal and John Monsky wrote a New York Times column explaining that his authority in that process is fairly limited.

"Nothing in either the text of the Constitution or the Electoral Count Act gives the vice president any substantive powers," the pair wrote. "His powers are ministerial, and that circumscribed role makes general sense: The whole point of an election is to let the people decide who will rule them. If an incumbent could simply maneuver to keep himself in office — after all, a maneuver to protect Mr. Trump also protects Mr. Pence — the most foundational precept of our government would be gravely undermined. In America, 'we the people,' not 'we, the vice president,' control our destiny.

Article II of the Constitution and the 12th Amendment both say Electoral College votes are to be opened by the president of the Senate, meaning the vice president, and Congress intentionally limited the presiding officer's authority with the Electoral Count Act in 1887 to prevent another chaotic count like the one that followed the 1876 election.

Both Article II of the Constitution and the 12th Amendment say that the votes of the Electoral College are to be opened by the "president of the Senate," meaning the vice president. The Electoral Count Act, passed in 1887 to avoid chaotic counts like the one that followed the 1876 election, adds important details. It provides a detailed timeline to tabulate electoral votes, culminating with the final count to take place on Jan. 6, and it delineates the powers of the vice president.

They guarded against any pretense he might have to throw out a particular state's votes, saying that the vice president must open 'all certificates and papers purporting to be' electoral votes," Katyal and Monsky wrote. "They further said, in the event of a dispute, both chambers of Congress would have to disagree with a particular state's slate of electoral votes to reject them. And they made it difficult for Congress to disagree, adding measures such as a 'safe harbor' provision and deference to certification by state officials."

All of the president's legal challenges have lost, and the results have been certified by the states and electors have duly cast their ballots, so there's nothing Trump or Pence can do to stop their re-election loss under the rules spelled out in the Constitution and the Electoral Count Act
https://www.rawstory.com/electoral-college-2020/

True, and why Louie Gohmert is currently suing Pence and the VP’s role in the electoral count

The Constitution itself does not specify what the VP’s duties are, the Electoral Count Act of 1887 sketches his responsibilities, which has been understood over the last century and half to mean strictly a formality, he opens and announces the States certified votes. Louie’s lawsuit, which obviously didn’t originate in Louie’s head, aims to negate the 1887 Act on grounds that it is too nebulous, meaning Pence can exercise greater authority in the process, even recognizing alternate State electors. Absurd, but hasn’t been since November 3rd

The scary part is that if the House at this moment in history wasn’t Democrat, say it was a GOP majority, even within the routine process, Trump could be ruled President based upon objections with swing State electoral votes and a total Congress vote to decide on the objections
 
Hello Nomad,

Here is an interesting, complicated "nightmare scenario" opinion from The Hill:

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/530306-no-biden-hasnt-won-yet-one-more-nightmare-scenario

It basically describes a delaying tactic challenge that could, if a few honest Republicans like Romney were not willing to sacrifice their political careers for the sake f the Constitution, result in a stalemate that might prevent Biden from taking office, but wouldn't give it to Trump either.

Sure it's possible but this assumes all the Republicans are committed to serving Trump no matter what. That is not the case. Trump's power is slipping away already. Biden's power is growing. America is ready to be done with Trump. It's only the extremists who think he has any kind of chance to overturn the legal election.

Those Republicans who went along with Trump's charade have already taken a lot of heat for that. Do they really want to risk more?
 
On Jan. 6, one last chance for Trump to snatch away Biden's win

The presidential election was on Nov. 3; most news organizations pronounced Joe Biden and Kamala Harris the winners a few days later; states certified their results by Dec. 8; and the Electoral College met on Dec. 14. But there’s still a bit of election business to wrap up between now and Jan. 20, when Biden and Harris will be inaugurated as the next president and vice president of the United States.

On Jan. 6, Congress will meet in a joint session to formally count the Electoral College votes submitted by the states. The electoral votes are carried into the chamber in ornate boxes, members of Congress look them over and then the incumbent vice president, acting as Senate president, declares the winners. In this case, it will be Vice President Mike Pence declaring victory for his opponents. It will be a tough pill to swallow, but other vice presidents have in the past, including Richard Nixon in 1961 and Al Gore in 2001.

The states have already counted the votes cast by their electors. Biden won with a total of 306 electoral votes, compared with President Trump’s 232 (270 Electoral College votes are needed to win). Biden also won the popular vote by over 7 million votes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jan-6-last-chance-trump-win-election-biden-congress-191107439.html

Trump has no chance of snatching away Biden's win, but if he did, you would see unprecedented
violence in this country too, and I will be fighting too!!!
 
Hello Nomad,



Sure it's possible but this assumes all the Republicans are committed to serving Trump no matter what. That is not the case. Trump's power is slipping away already. Biden's power is growing. America is ready to be done with Trump. It's only the extremists who think he has any kind of chance to overturn the legal election.

Those Republicans who went along with Trump's charade have already taken a lot of heat for that. Do they really want to risk more?

Well that's probably all true, but then again, one can never truly guess the lengths and depths these Trumpaholics will go to in order to please their master and his rabid fan base.

I think you might be giving them a bit too much credit for sanity.
 
Hello Nomad,

Well that's probably all true, but then again, one can never truly guess the lengths and depths these Trumpaholics will go to in order to please their master and his rabid fan base.

I think you might be giving them a bit too much credit for sanity.

Time will tell. One thing is for sure. If Trump manages to pull off overturning the legal election the you-know-what will hit the fan. America would not take that lightly.
 
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